Batman #21 Preview/Discussion

[rui no onna]

Apparently Alan Moore's rights around Watchmen mean that DC don't want to sell anything with the famous bleeding smiley button outside the US. A shame, as I was willing to pay a bit more for the lenticular cover but don't live in the US.

This part has nothing to do with Alan Moore. Rather, it's because SmileyWorld Ltd has the rights to the Smiley trademark in several countries outside US.

[Chubistian]

Nice issue, a slow start, but a very well constructed one. I'm not from the US, but my comicbook store offered the option a while ago to inscribe yourself in a list to get the lenticular cover. Still, I don't like the lenticular cover as much as the Mikel Janin one, I saw it was referenced as the International cover, that means that that's the one my comicbook store will get? Because that would be awesome.

[rui no onna]

Nice issue, a slow start, but a very well constructed one. I'm not from the US, but my comicbook store offered the option a while ago to inscribe yourself in a list to get the lenticular cover. Still, I don't like the lenticular cover as much as the Mikel Janin one, I saw it was referenced as the International cover, that means that that's the one my comicbook store will get? Because that would be awesome.

Yep. The Mikel Janin variant.

I believe both the regular cover and lenticular variant with smiley face will not be distributed by Diamond internationally. My guess, the comic book shops outside US/Canada just ordered the lenticular variants via comic book shops in the US/Canada to get around the restrictions.

[Chubistian]

Yep. The Mikel Janin variant.

I believe both the regular cover and lenticular variant with smiley face will not be distributed by Diamond internationally. My guess, the comic book shops outside US/Canada just ordered the lenticular variants via comic book shops in the US/Canada to get around the restrictions.

Yes, I also think that's how they do it and why they did a list to see how many copies they'd have to buy.

[Buried Alien]

Query: why was Batman watching that hockey game? Was he (typical and in-character for Batman) looking for clues in an investigation, or was he doing the unthinkable (for Batman) and just goofing off and watching the game for entertainment like a normal person would?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[NeathBlue]

Yep. The Mikel Janin variant.

I believe both the regular cover and lenticular variant with smiley face will not be distributed by Diamond internationally. My guess, the comic book shops outside US/Canada just ordered the lenticular variants via comic book shops in the US/Canada to get around the restrictions.

Yeah you're probably right there, the Forbidden Planet has a New York store, so maybe that's how they made it available to pre-order in the U.K.

[Buried Alien]

Buried Alien... since I read you for years let me share with you my opinions.

---

I believe that Barry and Eobard could possibly be, along with Psycho Pirate the keys to Rebirth.... and some more.

First there are 2 things that caught my attention in Batman 21:

1. Saturn Girl: "This is the game where they kill him. Superman won't come, our friends will die, the legion will die."
Two characters died today: the player and Eobard Thawne. Is she talking about the game? Is the game a reference for Eobard's death? OR something else will happen at the end of this crossover where someone real important dies. The solicitations for next issues put Eobard as being alive and kicking. But... Thawne is a time traveller. When is he alive? What is his time line?

2. Thawne: "My name is Eobard Thawne. I have been dead for sometime. I should be dead for some time more. But a power called for me and I am ressurected."

And one more from Trinity 8, also released this week

3. Superman: "If my world...if his... had been twisted and shaped once...who was to say it hadn't been done a hundred times?"


Now, both Eobard and and Barry share a common trait. Both DIED BEFORE COIE unified the multiverse. And, although their history has been rewritten... they actually never lived in it until Final Crisis/Blackest Night/Brightest Day/Flash Rebirth (2009) where both are ressurected. Eobard is from the future 25th century and Barry died and ended in the Speed Force since 1985 to 2009.
Barry was a threat to AntiMonitor due to being able to go freely to other universes.
Eobard since he died first and revived has obtained the ability to change past without consequence rewriting his and and Barry's history several times. And then when Barry reated Flashpoint while Thawne was in the time stream he became a living paradox, unrelated to any kind of history.


So let's remember what happened in thr last years:

1 - Barry was out of Speedforce in Infinite Crisis and then called by Thawne out from the Speedforce to destroy Darkseid who died. Then he found that is life was changed by Thawne, became a blue lantern, proceeded throught Britghter day, tried to change the past, created flashpoint.Barry returned to the past, stopped himself and in that moment we see the New 52 creation. First Pandora explains that reality has been divided in three timelines long ago (DCU, Vertigo and Wildstorm) "splintered to weaken your world fror their impeding arrival" then we see a blurred image of the classic universe and Barry suffering and losing his memory and changing at the end into his New 52 version. (Could it be that the moment Barry screams is when the 10 years of history were robbed by our antagonist (Dr. Manhattan??).)


2- Eobard reappears from a point in the future recreate the flash chemical incident (Flash: Rebirth 2009) and changes Barry's and his own timeline (The Flash v.3 8) multiple times and he is caught.
Then we discovered that his body was first reanimated by a black lantern ring, and then by the Entity (white lantern entity) transforming him in a white lantern (and presumabily when fully restored he will go back to the moment of Flash Rebirth and will be caught after changing the past. Since he already revived the Flash, his life is restored fully when he is still imprisioned. After Captain Boomerang releases him he tries to discover new ways of using his powers (The Flash v.3 9-12). Then transformed in a paradox by Barry, and when almost defeated he was killed by Thomas Wayne.

Before Flashpoint in Brightest Day Swamp Thing was revived in the DCU, John Constantine Deadman and a lot of characters used by Alan Moore also appeared. Everyone of the revived heroes (and Eobard) made it with the white lantern except Hawk. Post New 52 those were fully integrated into that universe although, once again in a less brighter way (in mood, not in quality).

Batman was killed and turned back in time through pre-history by Darkseid's omega effect and actually used Mobius chair.
Darkseid who died once has died again with the Anti-Monitor, who had with him the antilife equation and was the real owner of Mobius Chair. Mobius and Owlman were destroyed by presumably Dr. Manhattan. Darkseid is now reborn as a child.

Although robbed from 10 years of their lifes, almost none of the history of Green Lanterns was changed. But when Kyle Rayner, the user of thr white light tried to return hope (which is related to Barry) someone intervenes (probably Manhattan) and Kyle becomes unable to use the white light. (Now, lets remember that the prophecy of blackest night was originally created by... Alan Moore).

Superman has been divided in two... from two different continuities, and since both merged, Clark, mainly the pre-flashpoint one is aware something is wrong with reality and as a battle inside his mind with his New52 self.

In DC UNiverse rebirth, Wally before returning is fully conscious of all the details of his Post COIE life, just like Blue Superman but since is integrated in the new reality he begans to forget (and Pandora is killed while talking about hope).
In Flash rebirth there is something very interesting happening. We see a disembodied Pre flashpoint Eobard Thawne trying to reach to Barry and making him remember their original history and in the end disapparing in a storm.

Now, in Flash 19 it seems that the disembodied Eobard through the same storm breaks into New52 version of him and, just like Superman he returned to his original self, merging.

A pattern is arising.


1. Pandora original intent was to fuse 3 timelines that were separated and weakened before by someone to make their invasion easier. (Although wildstorm was always separated from the main DC, and Vertigo was created a bit after COIE, Swamp thing written in 1982 by Moore was probably the first comic that began to separate with the usual superheroic DC comics.) But then, it appears that those forces chopped 10 years of this fused universe life and created New 52 unknown to Pandora. And by the descriptions of Mister Oz, and the memories of BLue Clark and the events of Convergence, earth-prime (0) was split in 2 and probably created and multiverse of 52 earths for each one. New 52 is somehow only a shadow of the reality, but fully independent. Somehow the original COIE universe was removed from reality. And you remember that Stormwatch had a cosmic reboot just like it was normal?

2. Watchmen and Post Crisis DC both started in 1986. The button and Psycho Pirate Mask, both items related with that time period seemed to resonated eachother, and maybe it was that made Eobard return. There are many hints that "they" are doing this for more time that the heroes suspect that?

Definitely it seems that since the end of pre-crisis earth there have been reality maniputions from a unknown part, that is part revealing itself.

Some interesting thoughts to chew on, Heinrich. We'll see what emerges in the weeks and months ahead.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Maxpower00044]

Query: why was Batman watching that hockey game? Was he (typical and in-character for Batman) looking for clues in an investigation, or was he doing the unthinkable (for Batman) and just goofing off and watching the game for entertainment like a normal person would?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

There's got to be more there than that. Especially, if Saturn Girl knew someone was gonna die before the fight even started. What it is? I have no clue, but there's definitely something more there.

[Lightning Rider]

I find it kind of funny that Batman had no idea that Psycho-Pirate's mask had anything to do with the button or the overall Rebirth mystery, and it had nothing to do with why he was after it, and yet it seems to be the key to everything .

Barry sounds a little off in this, but maybe that's just because I'm taking King writing him so casually as trying to make him sound more "youthful." But "Samuroids..." Oh King .

Man, Thawne is back with a vengeance .

I noticed that. More and more writers trying to make the Flash comic relief. I blame Bruce Timm.

[Frontier]

I noticed that. More and more writers trying to make the Flash comic relief. I blame Bruce Timm.

And then it shifts into a dark comedy at the end...kinda fitting, all things considered.

[Buried Alien]

I noticed that. More and more writers trying to make the Flash comic relief. I blame Bruce Timm.

It's not so bad. To a large extent, the Flash has always been meant to be a lighthearted character (though not necessarily to the extreme of DCAU Wally Flash).

But as Frontier points out, mixing it with dark and gritty action makes for a jarring and odd combo.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Frontier]

Does anyone else feel really bad for Saturn Girl?

Being stuck in Arkham and being treated like your average crazy criminal doesn't seem to be doing her a lot of good, either physically or mentally .

[Assam]

Does anyone else feel really bad for Saturn Girl?

Being stuck in Arkham and being treated like your average crazy criminal doesn't seem to be doing her a lot of good, either physically or mentally .

Yeah, I'm more concerned about her than anything else going on this story. She's always been one of the Legion's rocks, and having her lose it mentally wouldn't be a good direction for her when the new Legion book comes out.

[AlexanderLuthor]

Query: why was Batman watching that hockey game? Was he (typical and in-character for Batman) looking for clues in an investigation, or was he doing the unthinkable (for Batman) and just goofing off and watching the game for entertainment like a normal person would?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I was hoping that even Bruce Wayne doesn't miss a Game 7 in the playoffs

[Buried Alien]

I was hoping that even Bruce Wayne doesn't miss a Game 7 in the playoffs

Yeah...it really wouldn't kill Batman's general appeal to audiences if we saw him doing "normal people" stuff once in a while (beyond eating a taco).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)