BND Era Recap

[Miles To Go]

And to some of us, it's revitalized the title and character. I've certainly enjoyed the 10 years after One More Day a lot more than the 10 years before.

So you didn't like JMS' early stint on the title?
Or Mark Miller's Marvel Knights?
Or Paul Jenkins on PPSM?
Or the Roger Stern/Howard Mackie/Paul Jenkins Green Goblin collaboration?
Or Greg Rucka's Quality of Life?
Or Mysterio Manifesto?
Or Peak Bendis on Ultimate Spider-Man?
Or DeFalco on Spider-Girl?

Y'know...those ten years worth of material?

'Cause all of that was light years ahead of the ten years we've had since.

[oldschool]

I read all of BND, and while there were certainly some interesting stories here and there, I don't think it stacks up at all to the quality of at least the 6 years of Spider-books that came before it, overall. But that's just my .02 cents.

For me, nothing in the BND era quite matches the mastery of JMD' first year on the title but, after that, I thought JMS' work steadily declined from good to pretty good to ok and finally sub-par. The BND era, while also a mixed bag, had more overall highs but nothing that could match that first year of JMS that started with "Coming Home".

[Metamorphosis]

For me, nothing in the BND era quite matches the mastery of JMD' first year on the title but, after that, I thought JMS' work steadily declined from good to pretty good to ok and finally sub-par. The BND era, while also a mixed bag, had more overall highs but nothing that could match that first year of JMS that started with "Coming Home".

Yeah, but we have to at least count Jenkins' first run on PP: Spider-Man, PAD's Friendly Neighborhood run, and Millar's Marvel Knights and Sacassa's Sensational Spider-Man here as well along with JMS, and that's just the main universe stuff.

[Rincewind]

So you didn't like JMS' early stint on the title?
Or Mark Miller's Marvel Knights?
Or Paul Jenkins on PPSM?
Or the Roger Stern/Howard Mackie/Paul Jenkins Green Goblin collaboration?
Or Greg Rucka's Quality of Life?
Or Mysterio Manifesto?
Or Peak Bendis on Ultimate Spider-Man?
Or DeFalco on Spider-Girl?

Y'know...those ten years worth of material?

'Cause all of that was light years ahead of the ten years we've had since.

Mark Millar's run: Didn't care for. I found it too grim and gritty.

Paul Jenkins's run: I enjoyed it, but as a diversion from the main title. I liked the small stories he did, but never really got into the longer stories he wrote for SM.

On the Green Goblin, I understand why he was brought back at the end of the clone saga, but I never really enjoyed his return before his time on Thunderbolts. So I can't say that the Stern/Mackie/Jenkins use of him did anything for me.

Quality of Life: The 3D art didn't work for me. And I didn't find the story that memorable.

Mysterio Manifesto: Never read it. Any good?

Ultimate Spider-Man: I llllooooovvvveeeedddd this title. It was fresh and fun. I couldn't wait for the next issue to come out. But it's not Amazing. It was an alternate universe story that was much more entertaining that the main title.

Spider-Girl: I tried the first few issues, but couldn't get into it. And if I did, it's still not the main Spider-Man title.

I can't help but notice that you're not including many stories from Amazing Spider-Man itself. It is the lead title where the main story should be unfolding. Doesn't the fact that you are picking stories from secondary titles, limited series, and Alt-Universe tell you that the main title wasn't in that great shape during this time?

[Rincewind]

For me, nothing in the BND era quite matches the mastery of JMD' first year on the title but, after that, I thought JMS' work steadily declined from good to pretty good to ok and finally sub-par. The BND era, while also a mixed bag, had more overall highs but nothing that could match that first year of JMS that started with "Coming Home".

I think a lot of the acclaim JMS gets is based on the fact that he was coming on after Mackie's years long, not very popular run. I wonder if he would be held in such high esteem if he followed a more popular run.

[Metamorphosis]

I think a lot of the acclaim JMS gets is based on the fact that he was coming on after Mackie's years long, not very popular run. I wonder if he would be held in such high esteem if he followed a more popular run.

But his run is widely acclaimed, and would have been following about any other run.

[Rincewind]

So you didn't like JMS' early stint on the title?

Sorry, I didn't see this when I first responded, I just jumped to the Mark Millar run.

While JMS was a much needed improvement over the Mackie run, overall I am not that fond of JMS. I never liked the Spider-Totem aspect he added to the origin, and I was never that fond of Ezeckiel or Morlun as characters. I do think that if JMS had followed a stronger writer, then his run would not be as well regarded now.

[Miles To Go]

Friendly Reminder Slott owes all of Spider-Verse, Kaine's stint as the Other, and Cindy Moon's origin to JMS' writing. DeFalco's writing too since Mayday's brother Benjy was a crucial part of the Inheritor's plan. The previous 10 years you "didn't enjoy" has helped to inform what you like now.

I think a lot of the acclaim JMS gets is based on the fact that he was coming on after Mackie's years long, not very popular run. I wonder if he would be held in such high esteem if he followed a more popular run.

Mackie's worst era wasn't even that long, and before he was put on both ASM and PPSM, he was pretty good.

One of the best post-Clone Saga stories, Peter and Norman stuck in a lift, was written by him.

[Rincewind]

Friendly Reminder Slott owes all of Spider-Verse, Kaine's stint as the Other, and Cindy Moon's origin to JMS' writing. DeFalco's writing too since Mayday's brother Benjy was a crucial part of the Inheritor's plan. The previous 10 years you "didn't enjoy" has helped to inform what you like now.



Mackie's worst era wasn't even that long, and before he was put on both ASM and PPSM, he was pretty good.

One of the best post-Clone Saga stories, Peter and Norman stuck in a lift, was written by him.

I'm aware the parts of JMS's run have been followed up on by Slott. And while I do enjoy a lot of the followups, it doesn't mean I like JMS's run more.

Mackie had some decent stories when working before Volume 2 started, but I think he was the wrong choice for him to write both relaunched titles.

[Miles To Go]

But his run is widely acclaimed, and would have been following about any other run.

Exactly. Did he have misfires? Absolutely...but most of them were due to editorial intervention. When left alone, his run on ASM dealt with very adult themes and issues that helped grow Peter, Aunt May, and Mary Jane in ways that the current books have just spat on.

Trying to downplay a seven year stretch of compelling character-building, raw emotional storytelling as "oh an iffy three year stretch preceded it, so people are just overpraising it" in order to big up their personal enjoyment of, IMO, mediocre drivel that treats the characters so robotically and childishly is something I'll never quite fathom.

If you did'nt like Mackie or JMS, you had plenty of variety back then too, and the level of variety back then far exceeded the quality standards of what we put up with now...and that includes titles presently that I like.

[MetalWoman]

I found JMS's run way too pretentious, and his Spider-man stories seemed less Spider-man and more Doctor Strange lite. Spider-man is a character who faces sci-fi based villains who have simple motives, not a mystical character fighting personified abstractions. Plus, The Other story should have been 4 issues shorter, I found myself yelling at the comic book to tell me what was in the @#$%@# letter already.

Although his scene with Spider-man talking to the random guy on a fire escape about popcorn does remain one of my favorites. There he was a "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-man" instead of weird mystical totem thing.

[oldschool]

I found JMS's run way too pretentious, and his Spider-man stories seemed less Spider-man and more Doctor Strange lite. Spider-man is a character who faces sci-fi based villains who have simple motives, not a mystical character fighting personified abstractions. Plus, The Other story should have been 4 issues shorter, I found myself yelling at the comic book to tell me what was in the @#$%@# letter already.

Although his scene with Spider-man talking to the random guy on a fire escape about popcorn does remain one of my favorites. There he was a "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-man" instead of weird mystical totem thing.

Very much agreed. JMS' run was certainly intelligent and different but, apart from his first 10-12 issues or so, it just didn't feel very much like Spidey to me. You are spot on that it seemed more like Dr Strange much like Slott's current run feels more like Fantastic Four to me.

[Mister Mets]

I think a lot of the acclaim JMS gets is based on the fact that he was coming on after Mackie's years long, not very popular run. I wonder if he would be held in such high esteem if he followed a more popular run.

A related aspect was that it was the first good prominent run entering a new era of comics (the written for the trade digital coloring cinematic storytelling era.) There are plenty of advantages to being the first to do something very well in terms of building critical reputations.

In JMS's defense, he does seem to be better regarded than some of his contemporaries. I thought Jenkins was stronger, but JMS's work pops up on Best of lists more.

[Metamorphosis]

I found JMS's run way too pretentious, and his Spider-man stories seemed less Spider-man and more Doctor Strange lite.

What does that make the current era? Less like Spider-Man, more like pretentious Amazing Superior Otto?

[MetalWoman]

What does that make the current era? Less like Spider-Man, more like pretentious Amazing Superior Otto?

I find the current run a bright sci-fi action movie that does not take itself to seriously, which has a Peter Parker to is dedicated to helping others even if he screws it up sometimes. Basically exactly what I want in a Spider-man comic.

I can see how people who prefer a more serious and street level Spider-man would not like Slott's run, but to me the tone is perfect.