DC to launch six new Dark Matter titles

[Atlanta96]

That's the point. This isn't for you. Your first sentence there makes it clear what you're about -- there is a whole line of comics that is made to appeal to you, fans like you. And that's nice, right? That's a line of comics that fans are getting on board with, so I think that's pretty nice.

Young Animal was designed pretty much to appeal to me -- I'm really happy that it exists. And Wildstorm, too, is what I'm about. I'm grateful for that, too.

Let this be for other people, is what I'm saying. Creators, under the stewardship of Geoff Johns, will come in and help 'fix' those books you want to fix. Part of the success of Rebirth is the reasonable rollout. It'll come.

DC is looking to provide something for everyone, and I think that's great. Of course there are failures and missteps, but waiting for a 'perfect line' where everything is exactly as you want it to be before they can do anything new or different, before they can make any outreach to other fans, is not really a business model.

And I'm sure you don't mean it to, but it comes off as kind of entitled for you to say that.

*EDIT - this is maybe coming off as harsh or patronizing and I don't mean it to. I just think we'd all be better off if we made room for other styles of stuff out there*

Problem is, there are a LOT of beloved properties being ignored by DC right now while they work on this new line of ongoing series. How many characters or teams that have had successful solos in the past are being neglected? Booster Gold, The Milestone properties, Tim Drake, Cassandra Cain, Steph Brown, Kon El Superboy, Captain Marvel/Shazam, Young Justice, the JSA, Power Girl, Wally freaking West, I'm sure you could think of a few yourself.

They could make good money off of many or most of those titles, but many won't even be given a chance. Meanwhile they're putting a lot of effort into unproven new characters that probably won't even last. It doesn't matter who it's for, if it's not profitable it doesn't deserve to exist.

So don't expect all fans to be satisfied when DC's priorities are clearly messed up.

[Deniz Camp]

Problem is, there are a LOT of beloved properties being ignored by DC right now while they work on this new line of ongoing series. How many characters or teams that have had successful solos in the past are being neglected? Booster Gold, The Milestone properties, Tim Drake, Cassandra Cain, Steph Brown, Kon El Superboy, Captain Marvel/Shazam, Young Justice, the JSA, Power Girl, Wally freaking West, I'm sure you could think of a few yourself.

They could make good money off of many or most of those titles, but many won't even be given a chance. Meanwhile they're putting a lot of effort into unproven new characters that probably won't even last. It doesn't matter who it's for, if it's not profitable it doesn't deserve to exist.

So don't expect all fans to be satisfied when DC's priorities are clearly messed up.

That isn't what retailers are telling them. What they are hearing is that there is a certain comics going fanbase, and that DC is appealing to that fanbase - both marvel and DC fans - really well now. But they are selling, in part because they are limiting the size of their Rebirth line, and in part because they are double shipping those books. Any new Rebirth books are going to cannibalize readers from that Rebirth pool, or stretch them further, which is a dangerous game to play. For a long time now the refrain has been "fewer books, coming out on time, with your bigger characters...this is what the fans want". So they are keeping Rebirth at a certain size, so that they can keep a certain consistency. They are waiting until they have the right pitch, and everyone is available and dedicated and (presumably) Johns can consult before they launch more Rebirth stuff. And they are doing it as part of the ongoing "Rebirth" story, and that is going to have certain timetable demands.

This - like Wildstorm, young Animal, Hanna Barbera - is trying to go outside that fanbase. It's just a different thing, or its trying to be.

And again, it's not about what 'I' like. I'm not looking at this as a fan. I'm looking at this as a comic creator who is involved with the business.

[MikefromGotham]

Problem is, there are a LOT of beloved properties being ignored by DC right now while they work on this new line of ongoing series. How many characters or teams that have had successful solos in the past are being neglected? Booster Gold, The Milestone properties, Tim Drake, Cassandra Cain, Steph Brown, Kon El Superboy, Captain Marvel/Shazam, Young Justice, the JSA, Power Girl, Wally freaking West, I'm sure you could think of a few yourself.

They could make good money off of many or most of those titles, but many won't even be given a chance. Meanwhile they're putting a lot of effort into unproven new characters that probably won't even last. It doesn't matter who it's for, if it's not profitable it doesn't deserve to exist.

So don't expect all fans to be satisfied when DC's priorities are clearly messed up.

There are a lot of characters I love that I feel can't carry their own book. I think 6 or 12 part minis for several characters with top talent committed to the whole run would entice me to buy more than another on-going book. I'd rather re-introduce (all the characters you listed above would be a great start, plus throw in Charlton, a Multiversity title, Doom Patrol, Challengers, etc) them back into the Rebirth DCU in a big way, than drop more titles that will float around the "cut line".

[Lee Stone]

That isn't what retailers are telling them. What they are hearing is that there is a certain comics going fanbase, and that DC is appealing to that fanbase - both marvel and DC fans - really well now. But they are selling, in part because they are limiting the size of their Rebirth line, and in part because they are double shipping those books. Any new Rebirth books are going to cannibalize readers from that Rebirth pool, or stretch them further, which is a dangerous game to play. For a long time now the refrain has been "fewer books, coming out on time, with your bigger characters...this is what the fans want". So they are keeping Rebirth at a certain size, so that they can keep a certain consistency. They are waiting until they have the right pitch, and everyone is available and dedicated and (presumably) Johns can consult before they launch more Rebirth stuff. And they are doing it as part of the ongoing "Rebirth" story, and that is going to have certain timetable demands.

This - like Wildstorm, young Animal, Hanna Barbera - is trying to go outside that fanbase. It's just a different thing, or its trying to be.

And again, it's not about what 'I' like. I'm not looking at this as a fan. I'm looking at this as a comic creator who is involved with the business.

True.
The biggest problem with the mainstream superhero genre is giving too much at one time.
People have limited budgets and the more comics released per month reduce the number of units sold per title as readers pick and choose.

And Young Animal, etc. appeal more to the old Vertigo and Image readers who are a somewhat different mix of readers than those that prefer straight-up superheroes.

[BCya]

I was worried they would be 3.99.

At 2.99, I will be willing to give most (or all) of them a shot!

And I can't stand crabby old fans who whine about anything new.

[WillieMorgan]

.

So don't expect all fans to be satisfied when DC's priorities are clearly messed up.

DC's priorities are certainly not 'messed up' just because they don't connect seamlessly with your own preferences.

There are things I'd like to see too (new Shazam, JSA, Legion titles). I'm perfectly aware though that DC will never really be able to do justice to it's entire line of properties without flooding it's own market.

This seems to be a thing for you. Almost like you feel that DC owes you a personal favour or something. They don't.

You are perfectly at liberty to vote with your wallet when it comes to the upcoming 'Dark Matter' titles. Whether something 'deserves to exist' is totally out of your hands though.

[Frontier]

DC's priorities are certainly not 'messed up' just because they don't connect seamlessly with your own preferences.

There are things I'd like to see too (new Shazam, JSA, Legion titles). I'm perfectly aware though that DC will never really be able to do justice to it's entire line of properties without flooding it's own market.

This seems to be a thing for you. Almost like you feel that DC owes you a personal favour or something. They don't.

You are perfectly at liberty to vote with your wallet when it comes to the upcoming 'Dark Matter' titles. Whether something 'deserves to exist' is totally out of your hands though.

And I still believe those are coming in due time .

[WillieMorgan]

And I still believe those are coming in due time .

Oh yeah, definitely.

Rebirth has been an example of DC deftly playing a balancing act with their output in the current market, one that they don't want to upset. Once the opportunity arises though....

[Lee Stone]

And I still believe those are coming in due time .

Yeah... Rebirth won't likely end before Action #1000, and that's still a ways off.

[JasonTodd428]

Problem is, there are a LOT of beloved properties being ignored by DC right now while they work on this new line of ongoing series. How many characters or teams that have had successful solos in the past are being neglected? Booster Gold, The Milestone properties, Tim Drake, Cassandra Cain, Steph Brown, Kon El Superboy, Captain Marvel/Shazam, Young Justice, the JSA, Power Girl, Wally freaking West, I'm sure you could think of a few yourself.

They could make good money off of many or most of those titles, but many won't even be given a chance. Meanwhile they're putting a lot of effort into unproven new characters that probably won't even last. It doesn't matter who it's for, if it's not profitable it doesn't deserve to exist.

So don't expect all fans to be satisfied when DC's priorities are clearly messed up.

I understand how you feel but frankly there are always a lot of properties in limbo at any given time and some of the time there are new characters that come out while that is happening and even a new character wearing the mantle of an old one is still a new and untried character. This is a cycle and has been for decades so its nothing new. I used to let it bother me when I was younger back when I took such things as a personal affront but in all seriousness it's not about you or I but about a company trying to expand its readership by expanding its offerings. I see nothing inherently wrong with that especially given that things like the JSA, Legion, Tim Drake's return from imprisionment and so forth will be forthcoming. I see this as an addition to the lineup rather than a replacement for the things fans are clammering for.

[golgi]

Da hell? DC has never been better (At least in my experience). You have so many great lines out there: Young Animal, Hannah Barbera, Wildstorm, etc... Now they are adding a bunch of new characters/books and people still complain. Yes, there are many characters that deserve their own book, but those should be coming soon.

Tom King teased of a New Gods book. Geoff Johns teased of a Legion and JSA book. HAVE PATIENCE!

[Ascended]

Correct. We're calling for the dozens of beloved characters currently in limbo to get SOMETHING before a bunch of all new characters, most of whom likely won't even catch on.

And that's a fan's prerogative, but it's a crap business model.

Yes, we all want to see J'onn get his due, and we all want to see John Stewart and Ray Palmer and Booster get the high quality books we fans know they're capable of providing. But how many times has DC given one of their B- or C-list characters a shot only to see it flounder and die? If a Atom book is almost certainly destined to fail, and a book with a brand new character is likely destined to fail, from DC's point of view they're both big risks that come with their own pro's and con's. Neither approach is all that different, as far as the income statement is concerned.

DC is trying to bring in a new demographic and create new fans while also servicing some CSR, which generates good will and in the current social climate can reap huge rewards when handled right. This is not a bad thing. Once the Rebirth deck has been cleared of some low-selling titles we'll see the Legion and the JSA and other familiar faces. It's not gonna happen sooner than that. That is going to be the case whether DC invests in new properties or not, because their core line can only support so much.

This is a business decision, not a self-serving fan choice, and while its a risk it seems like they're playing it smart. It has nothing to do with the B-list characters who can't carry a book that fans still want to see try to carry a book.

Btw...
With all the talk about 'creators moving the needle', who wants to take a guess that Lee and Co. have worked up a deal with DC to give the creators more incentives for creating their own characters?
The reason these are all new characters could be because DC is doing something different as far as creator royalties/payments.
Especially thought-provoking when you consider that:
A. The main creator who's spear-heading this is Jim Lee, who co-founded Image where he and other creatives formed a way to make low-print comics profitable to creators who make their own comics.
B. With the market glut and price of comics, the average number of copies sold per title will only continue to drop to where it will become too costly to print anything but A-list books. While companies like Image can successfully get by with fewer copies sold and keep their creators happy at the same time.

I wonder what the pay-scale for these books are. Publishers like Image and Dark Horse don't usually pay the same page-rates as the Big Two but make up for that with creator rights. And the creators behind this Dark Matter are high profile and (one would assume) get a pretty good paycheck. I cant imagine that DC is expecting to turn a profit on these titles paying the creators their usual rates so Im guessing the rates are lower but some degree of creator freedom/rights control is involved.

And I'm sure you don't mean it to, but it comes off as kind of entitled for you to say that.

*EDIT - this is maybe coming off as harsh or patronizing and I don't mean it to. I just think we'd all be better off if we made room for other styles of stuff out there*

Damn Deniz, I didnt realize you were still on the boards! What're you up to these days?

[sakuyamons]

And I still believe those are coming in due time .

Oh yeah, they are .

I've enjoyed Rebirth mainly, but I've taken a few looks to Hanna Barbera and it's pretty cool, haven't checked Young Animal yet, but I might give the new characters a chance when the solicits come out.

[rui no onna]

I wonder what the pay-scale for these books are. Publishers like Image and Dark Horse don't usually pay the same page-rates as the Big Two but make up for that with creator rights. And the creators behind this Dark Matter are high profile and (one would assume) get a pretty good paycheck. I cant imagine that DC is expecting to turn a profit on these titles paying the creators their usual rates so Im guessing the rates are lower but some degree of creator freedom/rights control is involved.

Hmm, yeah. Afaik, Image creators don't get a page rate (at least the writers don't seem to).

Looks like I'm trying all of these except Damage. I actually enjoy the kooky stuff. Heck, I'm trying Babyteeth, ffs.

[scary harpy]

And that's a fan's prerogative, but it's a crap business model.

Yes, we all want to see J'onn get his due, and we all want to see John Stewart and Ray Palmer and Booster get the high quality books we fans know they're capable of providing. But how many times has DC given one of their B- or C-list characters a shot only to see it flounder and die? If a Atom book is almost certainly destined to fail, and a book with a brand new character is likely destined to fail, from DC's point of view they're both big risks that come with their own pro's and con's. Neither approach is all that different, as far as the income statement is concerned.

DC is trying to bring in a new demographic and create new fans while also servicing some CSR, which generates good will and in the current social climate can reap huge rewards when handled right. This is not a bad thing. Once the Rebirth deck has been cleared of some low-selling titles we'll see the Legion and the JSA and other familiar faces. It's not gonna happen sooner than that. That is going to be the case whether DC invests in new properties or not, because their core line can only support so much.

This is a business decision, not a self-serving fan choice, and while its a risk it seems like they're playing it smart. It has nothing to do with the B-list characters who can't carry a book that fans still want to see try to carry a book.

I understand what you're saying and what they are doing. And it's a lovely thought but it's not going work.

It hasn't worked before.

What's going to happen is that these books will fail sooner than later and these characters will go sit on the limbo shelf with 10,000 others.