DC to launch six new Dark Matter titles

[Frontier]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd just like to think that this line of comics won't interfere with DC continuing to rebuild their universe and their roster of characters through Rebirth, just as their other lines of comics haven't had any kind of negative impact on their other lines.

Just my take on that.

[Deniz Camp]

This is all probably true, but at the same time, I personally don't feel they should prioritize new ideas until they've fixed at least most of the damage the Nu52 caused. They've fixed some, but they're not even close to being done.

And even more so than that opinion, this is all me, but "Action-oriented" comics, maybe focused is a better word, are ones I have absolutely no interest in.

That's the point. This isn't for you. Your first sentence there makes it clear what you're about -- there is a whole line of comics that is made to appeal to you, fans like you. And that's nice, right? That's a line of comics that fans are getting on board with, so I think that's pretty nice.

Young Animal was designed pretty much to appeal to me -- I'm really happy that it exists. And Wildstorm, too, is what I'm about. I'm grateful for that, too.

Let this be for other people, is what I'm saying. Creators, under the stewardship of Geoff Johns, will come in and help 'fix' those books you want to fix. Part of the success of Rebirth is the reasonable rollout. It'll come.

DC is looking to provide something for everyone, and I think that's great. Of course there are failures and missteps, but waiting for a 'perfect line' where everything is exactly as you want it to be before they can do anything new or different, before they can make any outreach to other fans, is not really a business model.

And I'm sure you don't mean it to, but it comes off as kind of entitled for you to say that.

*EDIT - this is maybe coming off as harsh or patronizing and I don't mean it to. I just think we'd all be better off if we made room for other styles of stuff out there*

[AlexanderLuthor]

Because they're not 'blank slates', something they address in these interviews. Fans have pre-conceived - and divisive - notions of what these characters are SUPPOSED to be. You are constrained by those ideas -- and even if you deliver something fun or interesting, you end up with a large part of the fanbase who refuses to engage because it isn't what was in their own head.

By starting fresh with a bunch of characters, they're hoping they won't alienate a section of the fanbase from the outset. They're hoping that fans will come for the creators, and stay for the characters, which tended to be the 90s model.

This is clearly a 90s-style initiative. They're trying to replicate the energy and success of the comics of that era. It's something that Dan goes back to a lot, at conventions, in meetings. He wants action-oriented, high energy comics. He thinks a lot of that is missing from the modern stuff.

Young Animal is avant-garde reinvention, 80s pre-Vertigo. Wildstorm is modern updates of paranoiac scifi. Rebirth is for classic takes on classic characters. Hanna Barbera is

And this is for new characters, with artist-driven stories, high energy and high action. I have no doubt that this is Didio's baby, just as Rebirth was Johns', Wildstorm is Jim Lee's, and Young Animal is an outgrowth of the Shelly Bond + Vertigo sensibility (creatively, Ellis and Gerard Way respectively, but I'm speaking of the editorial structure).

Don't worry. You'll get Shazam and Legion and JSA soon enough, after they cancel some lower performing Rebirth titles. But they're looking to diversify their customer base, and the 'remit' of Rebirth is such that they'll probably be selling new LEGION and SHAZAM and JSA titles to the already existing REBIRTH buyers. This is just something else.

Well, ok, but Dan DiDio has never shown me that he has any understanding of what comics fans ultimately want. I'm not even a DiDio hater, yet I don't see how that can be questioned. The New 52 and DC You were both "his babies" and ultimately they didn't work out because they didn't sync up with his fanbase. If you go to a convention or hang out in a comic shop for a few minutes people aren't clamoring for a return to 90s style comics. In fact, that time period is the most abhorred period in comics history for many, many people. Meanwhile, Rebirth has shown that a return to your core characters, legacy, history and cohesiveness seem to be what people want - this project is the exact opposite of those principles. Ultimately, I just hope Johns keeps control of the main universe and I guess Dan and these guys can go play in their own sandbox until this fails

[Deniz Camp]

Exactly this. When Didio talked about diversion I understand that he was talking about more than just race and gender, but also about the type of stories they are going to tell, DC is aiming not just to bring a diverse public to read superhero comics, but also in bringing a audience that usually don't read superhero book.

And they need to work on that, a lot. I get the idea behind this initiative is to put huge names on new and diverse characters, and these characters are clearly not really designed to speak specifically to the minority experience but are rather more incremental in their progressiveness (it's important to have diversity in superhero comics, even as incidental rather than focal, it's just a different kind of important), but I do wish they had made an effort to put diverse creators on the books.

Priest, at the very least, would have rocked one of these books (Say, Immortals).

[Deniz Camp]

I'm still hoping you're on that SHAZAM book, man!

Hah, thanks! Maybe one day.

[Deniz Camp]

Well, ok, but Dan DiDio has never shown me that he has any understanding of what comics fans ultimately want. I'm not even a DiDio hater, yet I don't see how that can be questioned. The New 52 and DC You were both "his babies" and ultimately they didn't work out because they didn't sync up with his fanbase. If you go to a convention or hang out in a comic shop for a few minutes people aren't clamoring for a return to 90s style comics. In fact, that time period is the most abhorred period in comics history for many, many people. Meanwhile, Rebirth has shown that a return to your core characters, legacy, history and cohesiveness seem to be what people want - this project is the exact opposite of those principles. Ultimately, I just hope Johns keeps control of the main universe and I guess Dan and these guys can go play in their own sandbox until this fails

But he's not trying to change the entire line. I think/hope he understood that you can't ignore what the main fanbase wants in chasing a new one, and assume they'll come along for the ride.

But having a line of titles that are designed similarly to 90s Marvel/Image comics, with new IP, artist-driven stories, super-star artists...I do think there is a segment of the fanbase who likes that stuff, who is interested in it. And I think pushing artists to the fore, I think that's really important, I think we are missing out on some fun, wild, weird comics by not doing that.

I think my proclivities are known, but I think there are fans who want comics like this. the 90s was driven by speculation, but there were also a lot of people reading comics back then, a lot of younger kids who responded to the work. I thought a lot of stuff was cool, certainly. And if there aren't, then there aren't, but it's a good idea to try stuff. And whatever else you want to say about Dan Didio, I have always respected his fearlessness in trying new stuff. It often backfires on him, I think, but this sort of limited initiative is low stakes and high potential reward.

[Ra-El]

And they need to work on that, a lot. I get the idea behind this initiative is to put huge names on new and diverse characters, and these characters are clearly not really designed to speak specifically to the minority experience but are rather more incremental in their progressiveness (it's important to have diversity in superhero comics, even as incidental rather than focal, it's just a different kind of important), but I do wish they had made an effort to put diverse creators on the books.

Priest, at the very least, would have rocked one of these books (Say, Immortals).

Yes, Priest is a major talent and name, he would do a great work on something like this. They did say they would be bring more creators later, I hope he is one.

[JasonTodd428]

That's the point. This isn't for you. Your first sentence there makes it clear what you're about -- there is a whole line of comics that is made to appeal to you, fans like you. And that's nice, right? That's a line of comics that fans are getting on board with, so I think that's pretty nice.

Young Animal was designed pretty much to appeal to me -- I'm really happy that it exists. And Wildstorm, too, is what I'm about. I'm grateful for that, too.

Let this be for other people, is what I'm saying. Creators, under the stewardship of Geoff Johns, will come in and help 'fix' those books you want to fix. Part of the success of Rebirth is the reasonable rollout. It'll come.

DC is looking to provide something for everyone, and I think that's great. Of course there are failures and missteps, but waiting for a 'perfect line' where everything is exactly as you want it to be before they can do anything new or different, before they can make any outreach to other fans, is not really a business model.

And I'm sure you don't mean it to, but it comes off as kind of entitled for you to say that.

*EDIT - this is maybe coming off as harsh or patronizing and I don't mean it to. I just think we'd all be better off if we made room for other styles of stuff out there*

Quoted for truth. Seriously, I love that DC has various lines of comics that appeal to different types of comic readers. I'm loving quite a few books from each one of them myself. I fail to see how DC launching yet another group of titles is going to prevent them from also launching more titles under the Rebirth banner that fans are clammering for. Wildstorm, HB, and Young Animal books don't seem to have adversely affected Rebirth in any way when those titles launched so I don't expect this will either. Not every book is meant to appeal to every fan but there's nothing on earth wrong with DC (or any company really) publishing those titles either.

[AlexanderLuthor]

But he's not trying to change the entire line. I think/hope he understood that you can't ignore what the main fanbase wants in chasing a new one, and assume they'll come along for the ride.

But having a line of titles that are designed similarly to 90s Marvel/Image comics, with new IP, artist-driven stories, super-star artists...I do think there is a segment of the fanbase who likes that stuff, who is interested in it. And I think pushing artists to the fore, I think that's really important, I think we are missing out on some fun, wild, weird comics by not doing that.

I think my proclivities are known, but I think there are fans who want comics like this. the 90s was driven by speculation, but there were also a lot of people reading comics back then, a lot of younger kids who responded to the work. I thought a lot of stuff was cool, certainly. And if there aren't, then there aren't, but it's a good idea to try stuff. And whatever else you want to say about Dan Didio, I have always respected his fearlessness in trying new stuff. It often backfires on him, I think, but this sort of limited initiative is low stakes and high potential reward.

I guess we can just agree to disagree on this and see what happens. I think if I were to pick one period of comics not to emulate it would be the 90s Image/Marvel stuff. I feel like I talk to a lot of diverse opinions in and around the industry and it is everything people hate. It seems like a strange tangent to take when their main universe is as popular as it's been in my lifetime (maybe more than at any time since before Stan Lee wrote Spider-Man #1?) based on the exact opposite principles. But hey, maybe there is a large segment of people I don't know that want this stuff back. I certainly hope it is successful, but DiDio's track record, and the track record of the Big 2 doing this numerous times over the years, doesn't inspire confidence

[AlexanderLuthor]

Quoted for truth. Seriously, I love that DC has various lines of comics that appeal to different types of comic readers. I'm loving quite a few books from each one of them myself. I fail to see how DC launching yet another group of titles is going to prevent them from also launching more titles under the Rebirth banner that fans are clammering for. Wildstorm, HB, and Young Animal books don't seem to have adversely affected Rebirth in any way when those titles launched so I don't expect this will either.

I'm all for DC having all sorts of titles if there is a fanbase for it. My main concern, and it is admittedly a selfish one, is that this is taking many of their best creators away from the main universe for a long stretch of time. I would assume these will be 6-12 issues in length and that is 6-12 months that these artists aren't working on core books, and instead IMHO working on characters and ideas that will quickly be forgotten. But, that's just like my opinion man

[Assam]

That's the point. This isn't for you. Your first sentence there makes it clear what you're about -- there is a whole line of comics that is made to appeal to you, fans like you. And that's nice, right? That's a line of comics that fans are getting on board with, so I think that's pretty nice.

Young Animal was designed pretty much to appeal to me -- I'm really happy that it exists. And Wildstorm, too, is what I'm about. I'm grateful for that, too.

Let this be for other people, is what I'm saying. Creators, under the stewardship of Geoff Johns, will come in and help 'fix' those books you want to fix. Part of the success of Rebirth is the reasonable rollout. It'll come.

DC is looking to provide something for everyone, and I think that's great. Of course there are failures and missteps, but waiting for a 'perfect line' where everything is exactly as you want it to be before they can do anything new or different, before they can make any outreach to other fans, is not really a business model.

And I'm sure you don't mean it to, but it comes off as kind of entitled for you to say that.

*EDIT - this is maybe coming off as harsh or patronizing and I don't mean it to. I just think we'd all be better off if we made room for other styles of stuff out there*

Definitely wasn't meaning to come off as entitled, and don't worry about being harsh. If I want to make the jump from fan to creator one day, I have to understand the industry better.

I actually do like more than just cape comics. Paper Girls, Chew, and Saga are books I love. Hell, what I'm working on now as my first attempt at a comic isn't a cape book. I see what you're saying that this is DC's attempt from a business perspective to appeal to a new audience,and I understand that, but what has always made me love DC is the characters. I don't think it's being entitled to be upset at the absence of dozens of characters I love in the presence of a bunch of new faces.

[Deniz Camp]

*replyign to Alexander*

Those Image and Marvel books were selling MILLIONS of copies. People - kids - were talking about comics back then. Rob Liefeld was on a god damn GAP commercial. Directed by SPIKE LEE.

There was a lot about that era that sucked. But there was a lot about it that worked, too. And more than anything, it wasn't afraid to try things.

Rebirth is selling to a certain pool of fans - DC fans and Marvel fans, but already existing comic fans on the whole. DC is trying something new. It makes me sad that we have to 'agree to disagree' that trying something different is a good thing, or that everything book should be created based on one (albeit successful) model/ethos.

[Deniz Camp]

Definitely wasn't meaning to come off as entitled, and don't worry about being harsh. If I want to make the jump from fan to creator one day, I have to understand the industry better.

I actually do like more than just cape comics. Paper Girls, Chew, and Saga are books I love. Hell, what I'm working on now as my first attempt at a comic isn't a cape book. I see what you're saying that this is DC's attempt from a business perspective to appeal to a new audience, but what has always made me love DC is the characters. I don't think it's being entitled to be upset at the absence of dozens of characters I love in the presence of a bunch of new faces.

I hear you. I actually think the CHALLENGERS book here is going to be a pretty cool, and probably pretty classic take on the concept (even if the characters are different).

More than just a business perspective, I think there is a sense that comics is shrinking, becoming increasingly insular when it should be expanding. Suicide Squad was by all critics a bad movie, but it was a movie that people apparently liked seeing in the theatre. Something about that movie struck a chord with fans.

It's not a movie I really want to watch, but it's not wrong to pursue those kinds of movies for people who really want to watch them.

Fast & The Furious is not 'high art' but it is (unbelievably, in my opinion) created a monster franchise, and just hit a couple of records from what I saw.

[AlexanderLuthor]

*replyign to Alexander*

Those Image and Marvel books were selling MILLIONS of copies. People - kids - were talking about comics back then. Rob Liefeld was on a god damn GAP commercial. Directed by SPIKE LEE.

There was a lot about that era that sucked. But there was a lot about it that worked, too. And more than anything, it wasn't afraid to try things.

Rebirth is selling to a certain pool of fans - DC fans and Marvel fans, but already existing comic fans on the whole. DC is trying something new. It makes me sad that we have to 'agree to disagree' that trying something different is a good thing, or that everything book should be created based on one (albeit successful) model/ethos.

I'm well aware of how many copies they sold - I was standing in line in 1991 for X-Men #1 when the guy in front of me bought 100 copies because it was going to "pay for his college someday". But I thought most people realized long ago that the sales in those days had absolutely nothing to do with the quality. It was like buying tulips in Holland a few hundred years ago. Nothing is universal, but I thought the general consensus now was that most of that stuff was absolute crap. Now, if they really wanted to emulate something from that time period I would be all for a return to the Jim Shooter led Valiant style of storytelling (the only company outside of the Big 2 to be #1 for a month). And I think we are getting some of that with guys like Tom King, for instance. Anyway, I hope the line succeeds, I hope you enjoy it and I hope it adds to the DC brand

[JasonTodd428]

I'm all for DC having all sorts of titles if there is a fanbase for it. My main concern, and it is admittedly a selfish one, is that this is taking many of their best creators away from the main universe for a long stretch of time. I would assume these will be 6-12 issues in length and that is 6-12 months that these artists aren't working on core books, and instead IMHO working on characters and ideas that will quickly be forgotten. But, that's just like my opinion man

I guess we'll have to see but it seems to me that the core books alfeady have their artists locked in and none of the artist involved are currently working on any of those at the moment either The most that can be said is that they will likely not be available for other forthcoming Rebirth titles and that may not be a bad thing. There are a lot of great artists out there who they might tap for those titles and frankly in this day and age when its difficult for new characters to catch on they need the extra push a big name creative team brings. No one would even give these books a second glance without it IMO.