The Flash #21 Preview/Discussion

[Atlanta96]

Is that really all you have to say about it?

Pretty much. Its hard to care about anything else when my mortal enemy is front and center.

[Lightning Rider]

Pretty much. Its hard to care about anything else when my mortal enemy is front and center.

If you're referring to Barry then I hope you know Wally would despise you.

[BatmanJones]

Identity Crisis was a better story than 90% of the stuff that came out of the New 52. Identity Crisis is pretty much gospel in comparison to the stories of the past 5 years.

So true and the notion that rape should never happen in superhero comics while people are constantly being murdered and maimed is just freaking silly. Some fans acted like DC had raped their mothers. Sue Dibny was treated as a more serious character and given more respect in ID Crisis than maybe in any other comic book. Ralph was most certainly treated with more respect than ever before. Some fans have a really hard time distinguishing between fiction (they are ALL "imaginary stories") and fact. You see it when fans argue that a JL roster won't work because they don't have the right power sets (forgetting the writer is the most powerful "hero") and you see it when anything bad happens in a fictional story about a favorite character. It's absurd and it's silly.

[BatmanJones]

Williamson scripted Batman #22 via Bleedingcool, so this probably explains the week delay on Flash #22.

This was a really cool issue. I even like Porter's art, which I normally don't. This has been a fun crossover so far.

I can hardly read a Porter drawn comic book because I find his style SO off-putting. More now than even in Morrison's JLA. Still this was maybe my favorite single issue of a comic book in the last year. It was just that good.

[Atlanta96]

If you're referring to Barry then I hope you know Wally would despise you.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lhckuhUxcgA

[Maxpower00044]

I can hardly read a Porter drawn comic book because I find his style SO off-putting. More now than even in Morrison's JLA. Still this was maybe my favorite single issue of a comic book in the last year. It was just that good.

Funny you say this. I prefer what I've seen here much more than his JLA run with Morrison. Porter's Wonder Woman was atrocious back then.

[BatmanJones]

Funny you say this. I prefer what I've seen here much more than his JLA Rrun with Morrison. Porter's Wonder Woman was atrocious back then.

There are things I like better and things I regarded to be worse. His Batman is really worse for wear--I don't even like to look at it. His Flash on the other hand is much improved since JLA as is his Wonder Woman.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Funny you say this. I prefer what I've seen here much more than his JLA run with Morrison. Porter's Wonder Woman was atrocious back then.

Really? Honestly I'd take anything he drew back then over anything he draws now.

[Lee]

Was it actually said that it takes place earlier in his career? Or is that just your speculation?

Originally, Death of Superman happened 10 years into Superman's career (according to the Zero Hour timeline).

As of Superman Reborn, Death of Superman happened 10+ years ago, before Jon was born. Whilst it's certainly possible that Superman has had a 20/21 year career, it seems incredibly unlikely. Clark and Lois aren't really being depicted as being in their 40s.

Regardless, Death of Superman's chronology in relation to other parts of the DC Universe has definitely changed. If Tim Drake is around 17 years old now, then he'd have been 6/7 years old during Death of Superman, rather than the 14/15 year old he was originally.

Literally the only thing that's different.

Removing Ma and Pa Kent from every Superman story published between 1986 and 2011 is a massive change. You can't really claim that those 25 years of stories are canon and still totally count if Ma and Pa Kent were dead.

And none of this contradicts Pre-Flashpoint continuity.

Saying that Clark and Lois had a son shortly after getting married and then spent 10 years raising him, including a sabbatical from the Justice League and the Daily Planet and moving to California, is a massive change. None of that happened pre-Flashpoint.

Identity Crisis was a better story than 90% of the stuff that came out of the New 52. Identity Crisis is pretty much gospel in comparison to the stories of the past 5 years.

Whatever your opinion of the story, I'm not convinced that DC will want to bring caped space rapes back into continuity. It doesn't seem in tone with the premise of Rebirth.

[Buried Alien]

The rape scenario in IDENTITY CRISIS was sorely distasteful (to put things mildly), but so much of the story beyond that was also problematic. The notorious scene of Deathstroke soloing the entire League was ridiculous, and some of the characterizations felt quite off. There were a few isolated moments I liked (the death of Jack Drake was a master course in creating suspense and pathos), but over all, IDENTITY CRISIS did not strike me as one of DC's better moments, and one that I would personally jettison from the canon were the decision mine.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[DCJdog]

I was surprised to see Identity Crisis as well. I thought it was a badly written story and I have a big problem with a male writing a story about rape. If Gail Simone had done it, that would be different.

I thought the whole story was whack though. A lot of it just didn't make sense. And the way that they tortured Ralph in 52 with the whole trying to resurrect her . . . man, that was just jacked up. I know that 52 is well liked but that whole storyline and some of the other stuff ruined it for me.

They need to just leave that mess alone.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Originally, Death of Superman happened 10 years into Superman's career (according to the Zero Hour timeline).

As of Superman Reborn, Death of Superman happened 10+ years ago, before Jon was born. Whilst it's certainly possible that Superman has had a 20/21 year career, it seems incredibly unlikely. Clark and Lois aren't really being depicted as being in their 40s.

They've actually left their age vague. After all, Clark and Lois don't look to be 20-year-old kids when they first meet or in any of the flashbacks, so they'd be at least over 30. And regardless, no matter how old Superman and Lois are or how far into their careers they are, artists will always draw them the same. Also the issue pretty much shows us that Clark was at essentially the same point in his life as he was in the original story, especially in regards to his relationship with Lois.

Regardless, Death of Superman's chronology in relation to other parts of the DC Universe has definitely changed. If Tim Drake is around 17 years old now, then he'd have been 6/7 years old during Death of Superman, rather than the 14/15 year old he was originally.

Maybe, but we actually havent seen those details and likely won't because I doubt they're going to publish a Death of Superman redux. As such, we can likely just defer to the original.

Removing Ma and Pa Kent from every Superman story published between 1986 and 2011 is a massive change. You can't really claim that those 25 years of stories are canon and still totally count if Ma and Pa Kent were dead.

Not anymore than removing Spider-Man's marriage changed the way that literally every Spider-Man story since 1987 happened after OMD, but those stories still happened. And at the same time, though, I don't think anyone can really say its a "different" Peter.

Saying that Clark and Lois had a son shortly after getting married and then spent 10 years raising him, including a sabbatical from the Justice League and the Daily Planet and moving to California, is a massive change. None of that happened pre-Flashpoint.

Again, none of that really contradicts the general Pre-Flashpoint canon. We saw in the issue's spread of Superman's past that pretty much most (if not every) major Pre-Flashpoint arc of Superman happened, much of which seemingly happened before Lois became pregnant. If anything, its an additive change, not a subtractive one. It doesn't rule out ANY Pre-Flashpoint stories, but it basically grafts the developments of New 52 and Lois and Clark onto Pre-Flashpoint Superman's life.