Wonder Woman #20 Discussion and Spoilers

[Outside_85]

Warnings in the header, will contain spoilers.

The issue is Circe's introduction/reintroduction by Rucka and...

To be brutally honest, this isn't a Circe I recognize. Previous versions always had an air of superiority and/or regality about her that sort of underlined just how confident and powerful she was. This new version... is much closer to Earth, she's basically Zatanna. I mean Cale goes through all the trouble of summoning her the traditional way and Circe simply pops up in Cales chair with her feet on the desk and asks why she didn't just use a phone before asking if there's any coffee to be had. A deal is made to take out Humphry and Dumphry and we get a look at Circe's cave... which is more cosmopolitan batcave than witch's lair. But lo and behold, getting Cale's daughter back it not going to be that easy since her spirit is not in the rock on the tip of walking stick... somehow it's broke and the essence has been sucked out and joined Ares... on Themyscira.

And this is perhaps where Rucka's new Circe commits the cardinal sin... she jumps ship, because she is not going help Cale unleash Ares on the world. And I say thats a sin, because in the past Circe was never shy of getting in front of the major Olympians.

Now in the past I have said good things about modernizing very old characters, like the Olympians. But that has always been with the note of being able to either recognize them in the new shape or with a degree of understanding that these things, despite how human they may look, are anything but. This new version of Circe very much strikes me as a clever-clever 20-something out of your average sitcom, not a centuries old witch.

[sakuyamons]

Agreed with Circe being the weakest part of the issue.

I think that making her be 'scared' of Ares was a real let down to me, her appearance wasn't a big deal for me, but that was, I wonder if this means that Ares will be Diana's archenemy instead of Circe. Hopefully she will be more like her old persona in the Truth arc.

Still, enjoying Cale's development and as always Dr. Cyber is a riot.

[Dexter Plexter]

I am disappointed by Circe's return and redesign. Maybe I need to allow more time and she will grow on me but so far not feeling it. She is supposed to be an uber bad ass and here she is bargaining for Springsteen tickets? I don't buy it. Also why does every member of the Villianny Inc. or whatever you're calling it now, look like members of a lesbian/feminist book club? Did they all go to Sarah Lawrence together? I am all for diversity but the needle has shifted so far in one direction it feels (and looks) redundant.

[Nyssane]

I think that making her be 'scared' of Ares was a real let down to me, her appearance wasn't a big deal for me, but that was, I wonder if this means that Ares will be Diana's archenemy instead of Circe. Hopefully she will be more like her old persona in the Truth arc.

Ares is definitely being set up as her big bad. Her archenemy? No way. He hasn't even actually appeared in 20 issues. They would never do that to Lex Luthor or Joker. But Darkseid, Apocalypse, or Thanos? Definitely.

I didn't mind Circe's look or even the fact that she's unwilling to go against Ares, but something certainly did feel off about her. I guess I'm just used to a more powerful and otherworldly Circe. I think Trinity is doing a better job with the character honestly. And her haggling for Springsteen tickets was just so bizarre (and not in the fun, kooky WW way).

I am really happy she's not in that trashy bondage leather she wore in Rucka's first run, though. That design was an eye sore.

Although I love Deimos and Phobos, it was nice seeing them knocked down a peg. Even if we all saw them transforming into the pair of dogs coming. Cyber is as amusing as ever.

I just wish Rucka wasn't so persistent with Veronica Cale. As I said before, she's definitely more interesting this time around than she was previously, but I hope if Rucka stays on longer than issue #25 that she is put to rest for a while so that other characters can shine.

[Pinsir]

I thought it was good. Yeah, this isn't the Circe we know, but neither is it the same Dr. Cyber or Dr. Poison, so just roll with it.

I just don't understand why the 'flashback' issues are so well put together and 'contemporary' ones simply aren't. I just read both #20 and #19 (In that order) and the previous issue's conclusion was poorly choreographed.

[RealWonderman]

LOVED this!! the story moved by leaps and bounds! And I actually totally dug this Circe. She reminds me of the Justice League Cartoon version! I heard her voice form the first scene!

i think this might be one of my favorite issues yet!

[Joao]

As someone who is not too familiar with Circe from previous stories, I must say I loved this version. She's bold and interesting and fun, but a character you can buy as a real person. I'm ok with letting the main gods being the ones who are distant and superior. And I think her willingness to help Veronica and the lack of hesitation to kill those men is a great definition of the character.

I also love her design, modern interpretations are my thing. I really can't imagine that gothic dominatrix look from new 52 fitting here.

Also, let us notice that the current moment of Godwatch is only three years away from The truth. The stories are braiding indeed.

Do you guys think Diana will free Izzy (and Ares), betraying the will of the gods?

[Hippolytus]

This Circe is new, yeah, and different, but to be frank, I was bored by the old one. This one has some texture--I thought it said something about Ares that she wouldn't release him, made him seem extremely, disturbingly evil and powerful. In any case, the story was really interesting. The way things are all intricately laced together--Diana's lasso around Circe igniting the spell that binds the two gods--at the behest of yet another villain. I just thought it was all so cool.

[Mel Dyer]

Love, love, LOVE what Mr. Rucka's done with Circe! No longer an infallibly inevitable, editorially appointed arch-nemesis, which she NEVER should have been and wasn't before WOGs, ..she's actually vulnerable, human and interesting, now.

Once, an undefined mess, Rucka has made her disciplined and surgically methodical, ..and I like that there's almost a scientific aspect to her sorcery, if we can call it that. While Veronica C-A-L-E is locking into place, as Wonder Woman's potential arch-foe - still don't like that she's basically She-Luthor - Rucka's Circe, once a cackling clichéd joke, is now forced to think and figure things out, before she pounces! At this point, I don't care what her motivation for villainy is, because she, with her creepy lair, bizarre trophies and incantations, is utterly fascinating. Rucka, in execution, has turned Circe [I can't believe I'm saying this!] into a Whovian-flavored threat, whose subtleties even Brian Azzarello might have loved - I certainly do. Basically, this new Circe is an evil, sexy, female Doctor Who, and I'd dare say this is a shiny, brilliant, new toy that other comic creators may soon want to play with - Trinity, JLA, Superman, Green Lantern and the rest.

I also like how she fits into Godwatch, after dreading her return to this comic, for so...like FOREVER, because I was so sure she was going to mess this team up! Cale, Cyber, Cheetah, Poison...now, Circe? That is an impressive line-up that begs [BEGS!] for one more high-rolling power player - maybe, Giganta?!

BEST OF ALL, ..she's no longer a clownish, purple-haired 'Wonder Woman's Joker'! That really wasn't working for me, ..and it hasn't impressed the rest of the comic world, either, apparently. Circe'd be a sought after supervillain, by now, if it had, and we all know she isn't. Maybe, this will change, ..when the other comics pick up this issue and update their portrayals of Circe to match Rucka's. This is the 'official Circe', now...thank God.

Still holding out that Mr. Rucka has bigger plans for Veronica Cale, who, though exquisitely written, ..is just another blandly evil industrialist, at this point. It's interesting that Ares was interested enough in Izzy to go after her. What importance could she possibly be to him? What plans does he have for her? Is she, a girl without a face, to be his new Silver Swan, and, if so, ..why her? Is she more to him, than meets the eye? Is Veronica? What plans does he have for Dr. Cale? Will Veronica volunteer to become something for Ares to spare her daughter's suffering, at the war god's hands?

Plot thickens! Great issue! I am actually a Circe fan, now. Greg Rucka is amazing.

[sakuyamons]

Do you guys think Diana will free Izzy (and Ares), betraying the will of the gods?

I think she will, I don't see Diana abandoning a child whose soul is being probably being tortured, even if it means freeing Ares.

[Hippolytus]

Agreed. Though I think Cale is incredibly nuanced--ruthless yes, but expressing remorse at times, horror at what she does but no hesitation to do it in the end. She's interesting.

[LordUltimus]

You know, those tickets could have been needed for a bizarre spell ritual or something. Maybe she wants Bruce's soul or something.

[BrianWilly]

I really like this Circe, but I also really wish she interacted with Diana more here. She pops up seven years into Diana's tenure, makes a few snide remarks, and then just peaces out like lolbyenow. Would she have ever even bothered to mess with Diana...heck, would she have ever even met Diana...if Cale hadn't needed her help?

[gwangung]

Love, love, LOVE what Mr. Rucka's done with Circe! No longer an infallibly inevitable, editorially appointed arch-nemesis, which she NEVER should have been and wasn't before WOGs, ..she's actually vulnerable, human and interesting, now.

Once, an undefined mess, Rucka has made her disciplined and surgically methodical, ..and I like that there's almost a scientific aspect to her sorcery, if we can call it that. While Veronica C-A-L-E is locking into place, as Wonder Woman's potential arch-foe - still don't like that she's basically She-Luthor - Rucka's Circe, once a cackling clichéd joke, is now forced to think and figure things out, before she pounces! At this point, I don't care what her motivation for villainy is, because she, with her creepy lair, bizarre trophies and incantations, is utterly fascinating. Rucka, in execution, has turned Circe [I can't believe I'm saying this!] into a Whovian-flavored threat, whose subtleties even Brian Azzarello might have loved - I certainly do. Basically, this new Circe is an evil, sexy, female Doctor Who, and I'd dare say this is a shiny, brilliant, new toy that other comic creators may soon want to play with - Trinity, JLA, Superman, Green Lantern and the rest.

What's clear to me is that this jocularity is surface only, and there are some deeper motivations that are only hinted at right now. And that her quips are Spider-man-like weapons to keep her target off balance.

I'll be interested to see what's deeper here.

[SiegePerilous02]

I actually found this Circe really entertaining, but I wasn't always wild about her before hand to begin with. The Springstein thing was weird, but other than that, I love her flippant attitude and her lair that blends modern trappings with standard wicked witch things. Her power levels here are definitely something to take note of. Binding Gods like that, even if Deimos and Phobos aren't some of the higher tier ones, is nothing to sneeze at.

I like how Adrianna is still very protective of Izzy even after becoming Dr. Cyber.

Ares is definitely being set up as her big bad. Her archenemy? No way. He hasn't even actually appeared in 20 issues. They would never do that to Lex Luthor or Joker. But Darkseid, Apocalypse, or Thanos? Definitely.

I wonder if we're gonna come away from this run with a clearly defined arch enemy? Like you said, Ares is shaping up to be an ultimate evil Big Bad, but that's not the same as a personal nemesis. Cheetah is arguably the second most important character in the run after Diana, but she kinda falls into the Harvey Dent category. Cale is far too sympathetic and, since she and her situation are reminiscent of Paula and Gerta von Gunther, she may end up reformed by the end of this. Circe is only just appearing so it's too early to tell.

I really like this Circe, but I also really wish she interacted with Diana more here. She pops up seven years into Diana's tenure, makes a few snide remarks, and then just peaces out like lolbyenow. Would she have ever even bothered to mess with Diana...heck, would she have ever even met Diana...if Cale hadn't needed her help?

She knows the Amazonian language. That may be due to her magical nature, or does it hint at a prior connection? I honestly prefer Circe being an old nemesis of Hippolyta before she encounters Diana in the modern day. It enriches Hippolyta's history, and provides Circe with a fairly simple but effective motivation that she never got in post-Crisis canon.