Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation

[FUBAR007]

I think the brief moment were you see she still cares about him was enough. Otherwise people will just complain that all her character and relatiosnhip is about Scott. apparently so many fans forgot all the times he mourned her.

The "Jean can only have meaningful characterization without Scott around" meme needs to die in a fire. It's bullshit.

[FUBAR007]

The first issue of Extermination has done more for Scott than the entirety of Blue. I'm sure that by the end of this I'll be throwing darts at a picture of Cullen Bunn.

If Bunn had put Scott and Jean together it would have been bad considering how useless he made Scott in his run - the guy's only purpose was to get kidnapped and hurt for Jean to get worried over, and that's a pretty bad pairing when used that way. Golden Age girlfriends (which Tyke had become a rule 63 version of) aren't good characters - I can forgive it in the 1950's because that medium was new, and that era doesn't have many decent love interests even in novels, much less comics, but there is no excuse for it today.

Aren't you a Scemma shipper? Is there really any version of Jott that would work for you and still be recognizable as Jott?

[phoenixzero23]

The "Jean can only have meaningful characterization without Scott around" meme needs to die in a fire. It's bullshit.

I know some people really exaggerate that. they developed together for decades without limiting each other. just like tyke and jean can exist while being sometimes involved (sometimes not).

but some people just will make any excuse to denigrate the relationship, even if it's not something real. i think there are 2 kind of these people
-some scemma/jogan shippers, some are cool but others will just try to bash jott because that's sadly how the shipping fandom works.

-some people that define jean/scott on morrison's run and that alone. this was a horrible story that tainted the view of the relationship so much that some fans only see scott as the guy who had an affair instead of the guy that lives and breaths for Jean.

[lancer]

The "Jean can only have meaningful characterization without Scott around" meme needs to die in a fire. It's bullshit.

Sort of like the Jean/Scott entity nonsense from the 90s. I used to call them internet myths. Enough people say it and it is now supposedly true whether the actual comics support the notion of not.

[lancer]

-some people that define jean/scott on morrison's run and that alone. this was a horrible story that tainted the view of the relationship so much that some fans only see scott as the guy who had an affair instead of the guy that lives and breaths for Jean.

But the story was allowed to be told. IMO, someone needs to step in and say, no, you can't do it like that. It damages the character too much. Now it's art of the the record.

For the howmanyith time, I can't just chalk up as bad writing that goes against decades of previous characterization. What i read of Chuck Austen's run, his Bobbyv Drake was an *******. Next writer goes back to writing him as I'd expect, I can get past Austen's version. Scott had an affair on his wife. Not gonna get past that

Sorry, it's how I feel. When I read NXM 131 i remember just tossing it in disgust knowing I'd never feel the same way about the character again. I read to the end of Morrison hoping I was wrong. That, by some miracle, it would be undone.it's what I hoped, I never thought it would happen. He did the red herring with Hong Kong. Whatever you think of Morrison, he's too talented a writer for that repeat.

[phoenixzero23]

But the story was allowed to be told. IMO, someone needs to step in and say, no, you can't do it like that. It damages the character too much. Now it's art of the the record.

For the howmanyith time, I can't just chalk up as bad writing that goes against decades of previous characterization. What i read of Chuck Austen's run, his Bobbyv Drake was an *******. Next writer goes back to writing him as I'd expect, I can get past Austen's version. Scott had an affair on his wife. Not gonna get past that

Sorry, it's how I feel. When I read NXM 131 i remember just tossing it in disgust knowing I'd never feel the same way about the character again. I read to the end of Morrison hoping I was wrong. That, by some miracle, it would be undone.it's what I hoped, I never thought it would happen. He did the red herring with Hong Kong. Whatever you think of Morrison, he's too talented a writer for that repeat.

Yeah, that's what i said. Morrison's run is sadly to this day the definitive Jean/Scott story for many readers. Which honestly sucks because it was a total deconstruction of the relationship. they could have made scemma after killing Jean (if they didn't want her alive) and we wouldn't be in the sad place we are today.
Morrison without need did some serious probably unreparable damage to the relationship. to this day no other romance has been treated worse.

[Ulfhammer]

The "Jean can only have meaningful characterization without Scott around" meme needs to die in a fire. It's bullshit.

Yes. Here's the logical fallacy with all this. Scott was always around before. Sure, Jean was on different teams occasionally, but he was pretty much omnipresent in her life. So... by that definition, Jean never had meaningful characterization outside of the handful of arcs she appeared without Scott. I guess her character only started being interesting in 2017. That means anyone who actually believes this isn't really a Jean fan. It's madness I say.

Honestly this all drains back to Scott haters. There's no logical basis for this opinion.

However. I do like Scott a hell of a lot more when Jean's around. If what Scott got while Jean was gone was "meaningful characterization", I'll pass on the majority of it.

[Ulfhammer]

Yeah, that's what i said. Morrison's run is sadly to this day the definitive Jean/Scott story for many readers. Which honestly sucks because it was a total deconstruction of the relationship. they could have made scemma after killing Jean (if they didn't want her alive) and we wouldn't be in the sad place we are today.
Morrison without need did some serious probably unreparable damage to the relationship. to this day no other romance has been treated worse.

Poorly read readers perhaps. Anyone who has read the majority of their history will certainly take more away than just what Morrison wrote. The problem is that it was such a massive shift in their relationship, readers like lancer can't get past it and I totally get that. Funny thing is that a number of writers since can't get past it either and continued to develop Scott along the path of self loathing and self destruction. The undertone of that always felt like Scott's failures to me, the affair being chief among them. Now if Jean has survived or come back years ago, Scott could have at least buried that hatchet with Jean, even if they didn't end up together. Sadly that opportunity never came to pass.

On a completely different note... is this the first interaction Jean & Tyke have had?



There's so much indifference on Jean's face here. Anyway it might not be since I'm way behind on Blue\Gold\Red. That's just sad if it is.

[Havok83]

Poorly read readers perhaps. Anyone who has read the majority of their history will certainly take more away than just what Morrison wrote. The problem is that it was such a massive shift in their relationship, readers like lancer can't get past it and I totally get that. Funny thing is that a number of writers since can't get past it either and continued to develop Scott along the path of self loathing and self destruction. The undertone of that always felt like Scott's failures to me, the affair being chief among them. Now if Jean has survived or come back years ago, Scott could have at least buried that hatchet with Jean, even if they didn't end up together. Sadly that opportunity never came to pass.

On a completely different note... is this the first interaction Jean & Tyke have had?



There's so much indifference on Jean's face here. Anyway it might not be since I'm way behind on Blue\Gold\Red. That's just sad if it is.

They met on panel in Ressurection

[Ulfhammer]

They met on panel in Ressurection

Did they speak to each other? It's been a while but I think they didn't. Quite the contrast to Cyke and Jeen's first conversation.

[Havok83]

Did they speak to each other? It's been a while but I think they didn't. Quite the contrast to Cyke and Jeen's first conversation.

Yes

[Ulfhammer]

Yes

I stand corrected. Still completely different feel than Jeen and Cyke's chat. Maybe Jean and Tyke will still have a chance to have an awkward conversation of their own. Seems unlikely though as it seems Tyke's days are numbered.

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

Yes

god damn I completely forgot about that beautiful black & red costume.
That's, like, legit the only reason I'm sad Jean isn't Phoenix anymore. It's the most kickass costume I've ever seen.

[Wiccan]

I wish we had more of this Dark Jean on Phoenix Resurrection. Maybe if #4 wasn't like 100% setup/filler, but rather ended with how #5 starts(Phoenix finally getting through Jean, with this Dark/Red costume). With the way the whole thing happened on that last issue, Jean had one edgy "This is who I am, who I've always been!!!" dialogue and then boom, she's already going back to normal lol.

[Havok83]

I know there's been confusion on if Jean rememebred anything from her time as a Ghost in the JG solo but that scan implies that she doesnt. She doesnt seem to know that the O5 are in present day as teens based on her confusion from seeing Scott. She'd of course know that since she hung around teen Jean but lost those memories when she got resurrected