Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation

[Ulfhammer]

Yea, this is what I want too. I want the good drama, no third party involved as in love triangles and affairs. It’s been done and it made all three involved look like jerks and brought nothing but distaste for the ship.

I’m up for a good drama and struggle the ship has to go through but well written. Unfortunately, marvel hasn’t given me a reason to believe in their stories. It’s been stale and stagnant for a long time, especially their romantic stories.

I sound like a huge pessimist

Unfortunately I don't think you do given what we've been served in the last 20 years. That said, every new comic is an opportunity for Marvel to turn it around.

[TheDeadSpace]

It needs to be organic and not contrived. It needs to feel "lived in." They can't just pick up as if nothing happened, but they can't act like two strangers to each other, either. Both would ring false.

I can see them getting back together in a formal sense fairly quickly, but their relationship being somewhat tentative for a while. In other words, the drama starts with their reunion; it doesn't end with it. The drama is in watching them pick up the pieces and gradually glue their relationship back together. The relationship itself is a process, not an outcome.

I feel like this makes the most sense in respect to their long history and past. Anything else would feel out or place or a change in order to create unnecessary drama.

[Ulfhammer]

It needs to be organic and not contrived. It needs to feel "lived in." They can't just pick up as if nothing happened, but they can't act like two strangers to each other, either. Both would ring false.

I can see them getting back together in a formal sense fairly quickly, but their relationship being somewhat tentative for a while. In other words, the drama starts with their reunion; it doesn't end with it. The drama is in watching them pick up the pieces and gradually glue their relationship back together. The relationship itself is a process, not an outcome.

I agree. I'm not sure what other way Marvel can play this. Their between a rock and a hard place. To have them avoid each other or act like strangers just it too inconsistent with their characters. I see this as the most likely approach.

[lancer]

It was later revealed/retconned in "Inferno" that Madelyne was subconsciously putting a telepathic whammy on Scott so he'd lose the duel with Storm and go back to Alaska.

Lee wouldn't commit to Scott because his superhero life scared her. Which is ironic because she later dated Magneto, and then ultimately ended up living with Skull the Slayer on an alien planet.

To me, it did not read as some big obstacle because Scott is not ready for a commitment. He says words to that effect. Let's not overstate Scott/Lee. This was issue 168. He had last seen her I believe in 150. They had one story arc stretching out over 5 or 6 issues culminating 150. There were certainly no declarations of love. Unlike Colleen Wing, though, something romantic absolutely did happen.

Myself, I took that scene as Claremont clearing the decks for Scott and Maddie. While not love, enough had happened with Scott and Lee that it needed to be addressed before he went with Maddie.

Scott and Maddie's marital problems were just those 2 issues. UXM 201 and XF1. And when they got married, their was a chance that they would go adventuring with the Starjammers. She married him knowing that was a possibility. By the end of the issue Scott decided no, that he wanted to settle down.

Personally, I always thought that UXM 201 was written too much in Maddie's favor . It's like Scott is presented as selfish for feeling an obligation to the X Men. Like he just got bored and wanted back into the hero lifestyle. The dynamics had changed greatly. Xavier is gone and they only have Magneto's word on what happened. He tried to kill SCott how many times as a teenager. I didn't find him selfish for having misgivings about leave the team, and the students, in Magneto's hands.
The read knew Magneto was sincere, but I didn't fault Scott for having doubts.

JDW's comments are not uncommon. That is an ages old serial fiction quandary for some writers and creators. Not exactly promising words for some long term Jott reunion, I suppose. Still, not comments I found alarming.

Me, I found the 90s quite refreshing after all the obstacles . What are you going to do that ad infinitum? I don't know. When I read the book, I thought Reed and Sue did just fine without new drama being thrown into their relationship every 6 issues.

[Abbz_A]

It needs to be organic and not contrived. It needs to feel "lived in." They can't just pick up as if nothing happened, but they can't act like two strangers to each other, either. Both would ring false.

I can see them getting back together in a formal sense fairly quickly, but their relationship being somewhat tentative for a while. In other words, the drama starts with their reunion; it doesn't end with it. The drama is in watching them pick up the pieces and gradually glue their relationship back together. The relationship itself is a process, not an outcome.

Totally! That’s what I hope to see.

Unfortunately I don't think you do given what we've been served in the last 20 years. That said, every new comic is an opportunity for Marvel to turn it around.

That is true. I hope Marvel gets it right.

[phoenixzero23]

If jean and scott ever fix some of their problems it will be in a really slow way.

I was wondering if something like that has ever happened in the marvel universe. Has any couple come back after messing up their marriage? (Not counting peter/mj because technically that one didnt happen)

[TheDeadSpace]

If jean and scott ever fix some of their problems it will be in a really slow way.

I was wondering if something like that has ever happened in the marvel universe. Has any couple come back after messing up their marriage? (Not counting peter/mj because technically that one didnt happen)

I'm stumped to be honest. The only thing close to the situation is Blackbolt and Medusa, and I'm hoping they don't base Scott and Jean from that dumpster fire.

[Lokimaru]

It was later revealed/retconned in "Inferno" that Madelyne was subconsciously putting a telepathic whammy on Scott so he'd lose the duel with Storm and go back to Alaska.

Lee wouldn't commit to Scott because his superhero life scared her. Which is ironic because she later dated Magneto, and then ultimately ended up living with Skull the Slayer on an alien planet.

Hope Jay and Miles don't sue me for trademark infringement but WHAT!!! 😲

[Abbz_A]

I'm stumped to be honest. The only thing close to the situation is Blackbolt and Medusa, and I'm hoping they don't base Scott and Jean from that dumpster fire.

That’s the thing, Marvel didn’t give us a good reason to believe in their romantic stories.

It’s only Reed n Sue that r doing fine.

[lancer]

First one that comes to my mind is Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne, I mean with controversial breakups, sordid breakups. He hit her, slapped her. They divorced. They later reconciled. He proposed again at one point, but she declined.

The last time I was reading AVENGERS regularly was Geoff Johns. They were still together then. Chuck Austen took over and was just horrendous. I lasted one issue. He had Jan hook up with Hawkeye. Not just that, I found his entire take on the team terrible. Then Bendis wrote DISASSEMBLED and I was really out.

This was 15 or so years ago. I don't believe Hank and Jan ever got back together again since on any regular basis. Still, they were for awhile. They broke up under controversial circumstances and got back together again.

What Pym was allowed to do is my problem with Scott Ffin a nutshell. Hank hitting Jan never fully disappears and it's the same with Scott and the affair. You can't let the character cross that line because now it's in bounds for the next writer who wants to do something similar. You don't let that story be told because it always taints the character.

Obviously, just my opinion. For others, it makes the characters more complex and interesting. To each his own.

[JeisonWolf]

I have to ask, yesterday I went to the Game and I saw that they had the arc of Dark Phoenix saga, I started to look at some pages and saw this.

Really Jean and Warren kissed and nobody cared? Scott doesn't say anything and two previous numbers Jean kisses Mastermind and Scott doesn't do anything either? I want to say she kiss him in front of him! WTF!? As soon as I have time I will read it but the truth is I have not understood any of this.

[Abbz_A]

I have to ask, yesterday I went to the Game and I saw that they had the arc of Dark Phoenix saga, I started to look at some pages and saw this.

Really Jean and Warren kissed and nobody cared? Scott doesn't say anything and two previous numbers Jean kisses Mastermind and Scott doesn't do anything either? I want to say she kiss him in front of him! WTF!? As soon as I have time I will read it but the truth is I have not understood any of this.

Lmao ... Scott has cuckolding fetish.

Humour, guys .... humour

[Ulfhammer]

I have to ask, yesterday I went to the Game and I saw that they had the arc of Dark Phoenix saga, I started to look at some pages and saw this.

Really Jean and Warren kissed and nobody cared? Scott doesn't say anything and two previous numbers Jean kisses Mastermind and Scott doesn't do anything either? I want to say she kiss him in front of him! WTF!? As soon as I have time I will read it but the truth is I have not understood any of this.

There's two seperate things going on there.

Mastermind was manipulating Jean through illusions. He appeared as various people slowly tapping into her inner turmoil about many things, including Scott's supposed death in UXM 113, and Jean's realization of her ongoing changes which will culminate in her becoming DP. Along with these changes, we see some differences in Jean's behavior in general. She's more willing to use her powers (case in point, putting the whammy on Kitty's parents) and is dressing and behaving more provocatively by the time the panel from UXM 132 get's posted.

The most ironic thing about this is that just a few pages later Scott and Jean are sharing their iconic tryst on the butte. I really think what we're seeing her is a Jean that's embraced her sexuality, due to both the PF influence as well as her, well call it "dalliance" with Mastermind in Greece.

[PrezValentine]

I have to ask, yesterday I went to the Game and I saw that they had the arc of Dark Phoenix saga, I started to look at some pages and saw this.

Really Jean and Warren kissed and nobody cared? Scott doesn't say anything and two previous numbers Jean kisses Mastermind and Scott doesn't do anything either? I want to say she kiss him in front of him! WTF!? As soon as I have time I will read it but the truth is I have not understood any of this.

What's a kiss like this between two friends, am I right?

I had forgotten about this scene. Is there any Jean fan here to spin this in a way that makes Scott the guilty one in this kiss or should I devote myself to the art of fanfiction?

[Ulfhammer]

What's a kiss like this between two friends, am I right?

I had forgotten about this scene. Is there any Jean fan here to spin this in a way that makes Scott the guilty one in this kiss or should I devote myself to the art of fanfiction?

Despite how it looks, and it looks bad I'll grant you, this is really a non-event. Even Candy's reaction makes it pretty clear that no one see's as much more than teasing their SO's.

On a totally separate note, you have to laugh at the ridiculousness of Jott. They both lost their virginity to each other, but not at the same time...