Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation

[lancer]

Jean never got a chance to talk to Scott about it. Her first instinct was to lash at Emma and Scott was gone by the end of the issue. Things then got derailed by the attempted murder and the Weapon X arc which didnt feature Jean and then we are in Planet X.

Just a microcosm of the run. He pretty much refused to give Jott any panel time. How can anything be resolved, one way or the other, until they talk. The catfight issue makes Scott look unfairly accused, IMO. Jean finds out nothing happened in Hong Kong and Scott gets to storm out like the unfairly accused party. They damn well were having an affair and she walked in on it. Absolutely, it was psychic. How you feel about that with a world class telepath vis a vis a full blown physical affair is a personal thing. I've never claimed it's the same, but too close to it for my tastes.

Since I'm in the minority on many things here. Here is another. I did not like Jean's behavior in this issue. I thought she violated Emma by barging her way into Emma's head and finding out things Emma didn't want anyone to know. Emma pleaded with her not to.

Did I expect Jean to do nothing. Absolutely not. Would have had no problem with her clocking Emma once or twice. Not seriously hurt her, but if she left her with a black eye and bruised up a bit, no problem. This woman set out to seduce her husband. She had every right to be pissed at her.

Again, I think she sort of violated Emma. This is strictly about my behavioral expectations for Jean. Based on decades of reading the character Those expectations are not based on what Emma did. I don't expect moral behavior from her.

Mind you, I didn't say it ruined Jean for me. I was disappointed. However, in the end, she put Emma back together because she is the bigger and better person. Ten times the person Emma Frost will ever dream of being. Well, when I was reading, anyway

[lancer]

Honestly, i had to agreed with lancer that there are some stories that simply shouldn't be told and that's the case with Hank Pym and Scott, there are territories that shouldn't be touch in the main universe. Althougth unlike Scotr, you could make an argument that Hank wasn't a great husband before the slap.

Egads, there is one person that agrees with me. Actually, I think Fubar might as well. Not sure, though. That would make 3. A veritable army.

Someone mentioned Maddie. I never saw INFERNO as a retcon for Scott. The stuff he did in early X FACTOR that some hated him for? He still consciously did those things. They didn't retcon in some sort of mind controlled aspect. In my view, what INFERNO does is basically say, you think Scott is bad, look at how evil Maddie has become. Why don't you just forget about what Scott did because it pales in comparison. I think that just made the people who hated Scott for that behavior hate him even more because they think MARVEL made Maddie a scapegoat. Frankly, they did, but it's canon.

The equivalent with the affair would be turn Emma back into her early days in UNCANNY. Just as some with X FACTOR, that will do nothing for me. I don't care what they do with Emma, it's Scott's behavior that needs to be undone. For me, obviously. Check that a bit. I could care about what they do with Emma . Reveal, UNEQUIVOCALLY, that Emma mind controlled Scott into the affair.
That would be a development I would much care about in a positive way. I know, I know, I am not holding my breath.

One last thing. Scott's viability as a character because of the affair. The guy was front and center how many years after that story? MARVEL sure seemed to consider him plenty viable. Jott is another matter. Perhaps it may have some impact on that. Time will tell. But Scott's overall character, I think that has already been answered.

Message boards are always going to have at least some negative as well as positive. When Scott was being portrayed the way I liked I saw negative on message boards. I'm talking the company, and I think they already answered that question loud and clear.

[lancer]

Jean never called it a affair, is what I am saying. She read his mind and saw everything that had happen. Even when talking to other she could call it what it was but she did not.

She did call it an affair. A psychic affair. "But they were thinking of it." Shouldn't put quotes. May not be exact. She damn well said something pretty close to it. I remember it. I will admit I only read NXM 139 Once. That was more than enough for me.

[Cyke is Slim]

Scott has the upper hand in this, since he has other relevant stories way more relevant than the affair with Jean, so there's that. But if he goes back to Jean, then there's the risk of the affair coming back to bite him. And Marvel is not above hiring someone who hates him to write the X-Men. Take Ed Piskor, he still despises Scott because of Madelyne, of all things.

The best case scenario, and what I would do if I was in charge, is to completely nuke any relationship between them except for teammates, and even that is negotiable. If there's a chance or an opening for the couple to be brought together, you also need to consider the chance of someome bringing up the affair for drama later. And it would only be used to put Scott down. If we're being brutally honest, the only way to guarantee 100% that Jott won't be mishandled is to kill it definitively and treat it as a good thing from the past that is not coming back. Limit Scott and Jean's panel time together to the absolute minimum and keep it that way.

This is like giving excuse for people who hate Jean/Scott to continue hating it. The only thing JOTT will be remembered by will be the affair. Mistakes were made by both of them, it can be resolved. The only thing it will completely tarnish will be Scemma, actually.

[Abbz_A]

Scott should have take the same path that John Marston from Red Dead Redemption, ex-gang member that can do almost any sort of attrocities in game, but would never cheat on his wife, maybe things would be different then

Edit: Also Namor?, seriously?, that guy makes Logan look like a legitimate option lol.

Omg!! Hahah right?? Did u check out rdr2?

I gotta say tho; Scott’s affair is controversial by itself. I honestly think Scott was taken advantage of and few others think the same. So it’s not clear cut, it’s a complicated issue.

[TheCape]

Omg!! Hahah right?? Did u check out rdr2?

I gotta say tho; Scott’s affair is controversial by itself. I honestly think Scott was taken advantage of and few others think the same. So it’s not clear cut, it’s a complicated issue.

Yeah i did, it was pretty good, althougth just like Marston, controlling Morgan sometimes is like moving a truck lol.

[Abbz_A]

Yeah i did, it was pretty good, althougth just like Marston, controlling Morgan sometimes is like moving a truck lol.

Hahha the gameplay was tough ... It took me forever to get used to it.
But the narrative was amazing!! I’m hooked xD

[PrezValentine]

This is like giving excuse for people who hate Jean/Scott to continue hating it. The only thing JOTT will be remembered by will be the affair. Mistakes were made by both of them, it can be resolved. The only thing it will completely tarnish will be Scemma, actually.

If we go by people who hate the relationship, they already show they're pretty adamant and won't change their stance no matter what happens. Not going back to the pairing is the best way to guarantee there won't MORE people hating the relationship and Scott. Whatever happens, someone down the line will eventually want to approach on an angle that makes Scott sound like the most abusive husband ever and, as seen in this very thread, for some people it tarnishes the character forever.

Egads, there is one person that agrees with me. Actually, I think Fubar might as well. Not sure, though. That would make 3. A veritable army.

Someone mentioned Maddie. I never saw INFERNO as a retcon for Scott. The stuff he did in early X FACTOR that some hated him for? He still consciously did those things. They didn't retcon in some sort of mind controlled aspect. In my view, what INFERNO does is basically say, you think Scott is bad, look at how evil Maddie has become. Why don't you just forget about what Scott did because it pales in comparison. I think that just made the people who hated Scott for that behavior hate him even more because they think MARVEL made Maddie a scapegoat. Frankly, they did, but it's canon.

The equivalent with the affair would be turn Emma back into her early days in UNCANNY. Just as some with X FACTOR, that will do nothing for me. I don't care what they do with Emma, it's Scott's behavior that needs to be undone. For me, obviously. Check that a bit. I could care about what they do with Emma . Reveal, UNEQUIVOCALLY, that Emma mind controlled Scott into the affair.
That would be a development I would much care about in a positive way. I know, I know, I am not holding my breath.

One last thing. Scott's viability as a character because of the affair. The guy was front and center how many years after that story? MARVEL sure seemed to consider him plenty viable. Jott is another matter. Perhaps it may have some impact on that. Time will tell. But Scott's overall character, I think that has already been answered.

Message boards are always going to have at least some negative as well as positive. When Scott was being portrayed the way I liked I saw negative on message boards. I'm talking the company, and I think they already answered that question loud and clear.

Scott was completely viable then because Jean wasn't around, so there was no reason to hammer on the fact that he cheated on her. You put them together, there's plenty of room and opportunity to do that. It's one thing to have it happen and move on, another have it happen, insist on it and use it as way to portray Scott in the most negative way available, which will happen if/when they are put together. It's just the way Marvel works.

[phoenixzero23]

If we go by people who hate the relationship, they already show they're pretty adamant and won't change their stance no matter what happens. Not going back to the pairing is the best way to guarantee there won't MORE people hating the relationship and Scott. Whatever happens, someone down the line will eventually want to approach on an angle that makes Scott sound like the most abusive husband ever and, as seen in this very thread, for some people it tarnishes the character forever.



Scott was completely viable then because Jean wasn't around, so there was no reason to hammer on the fact that he cheated on her. You put them together, there's plenty of room and opportunity to do that. It's one thing to have it happen and move on, another have it happen, insist on it and use it as way to portray Scott in the most negative way available, which will happen if/when they are put together. It's just the way Marvel works.

Killing jott isn't going to fix anything because that already happened, 14 years ago. They don't intereacting isn't the solution because that's what we have had for years. For me it is better to show them actually working well together, to show that that affair was the exception, not the rule but that's just me.
they will be defined as a failure until marvel shows them being good, specially scott. i think having them totally apart forever will only cause more damage. I also don't think is reallistic to have them totally apart, their stories are pretty tied together, more than any other characters on the x-books even after everything that has been done to break them.

[Abbz_A]

Killing jott isn't going to fix anything because that already happened, 14 years ago. They don't intereacting isn't the solution because that's what we have had for years. For me it is better to show them actually working well together, to show that that affair was the exception, not the rule but that's just me.

Yup! Agreed.

The affair is an exception and it was a mistake that they committed. Marvel should work on a build up instead of ignoring or making them move on. If they remained separated or bury Jott ... it means they weren’t in love although Scott admitted on missing her n loving her .... and Jean did the same

[PrezValentine]

Killing jott isn't going to fix anything because that already happened, 14 years ago. They don't intereacting isn't the solution because that's what we have had for years. For me it is better to show them actually working well together, to show that that affair was the exception, not the rule but that's just me.
they will be defined as a failure until marvel shows them being good, specially scott. i think having them totally apart forever will only cause more damage. I also don't think is reallistic to have them totally apart, their stories are pretty tied together, more than any other characters on the x-books even after everything that has been done to break them.

I'm not talking about fixing anything, because I don't think there's anything yet to be fixed. I'm talking about not causing more damage and taking the safer approach to it, which is to have them talk about it, reach a satisfying conclusion and then move on. There's no damage to be caused to the characters if nobody's messing with the former pairing.

[Cyke is Slim]

I'm not talking about fixing anything, because I don't think there's anything yet to be fixed. I'm talking about not causing more damage and taking the safer approach to it, which is to have them talk about it, reach a satisfying conclusion and then move on. There's no damage to be caused to the characters if nobody's messing with the former pairing.

Like Scott & Maddie should have had. If they would've had a normal human discussion, fans would have realized that Scott/Maddie was doomed from start, Maddie was possessive
of Scott, Scott actually married her because she looked like Jean, that it was a toxic relationship at its core. But the writers took the easy way out, made her a villain etc. etc.
Jott is epic, enduring & beautiful at its core. There are many great stories about them. The thing is Scott at his core remained the same man that he always was his values didn't change,his goals didn't change, only his willingness to follow them. The love of his life didn't change. Everybody knew that what would have happened if Jean returned. There are ways to not show Cyclops like an abusive husband and have them together. And it's easy if the writer is fair.

[Cyke is Slim]

Lol

[JeisonWolf]

Yup! Agreed.

The affair is an exception and it was a mistake that they committed. Marvel should work on a build up instead of ignoring or making them move on. If they remained separated or bury Jott ... it means they weren’t in love although Scott admitted on missing her n loving her .... and Jean did the same

Right? I mean, there were already many AUs where Jean cheated on Scott with Logan, but it didn't matter because they were AUs. So they would sastiface the fans of the other couple without fucking the real couple on the main line. Ironically, it was another character who broke the relationship and not Logan.

Like Scott & Maddie should have had. If they would've had a normal human discussion, fans would have realized that Scott/Maddie was doomed from start, Maddie was possessive
of Scott, Scott actually married her because she looked like Jean, that it was a toxic relationship at its core. But the writers took the easy way out, made her a villain etc. etc.
Jott is epic, enduring & beautiful at its core. There are many great stories about them. The thing is Scott at his core remained the same man that he always was his values didn't change,his goals didn't change, only his willingness to follow them. The love of his life didn't change. Everybody knew that what would have happened if Jean returned. There are ways to not show Cyclops like an abusive husband and have them together. And it's easy if the writer is fair.

I think that in wikipedia or something similar where I read a summary of Scott's life when I started reading Marvel a year ago or 2, it clearly said: Scott's life after losing his great love. As much as Scemma has had his moments, there are really few who doubt that Scott's true love is other than Jean.

On the other hand I don't know why Scott should be like Hank Pim, he is not an alcoholic, a smoker, a drug addict or even a violent person, he would never hit Jean. So I really think that on that side, there's no need to worry. Maybe yes, over time, there is something like Scott and Psylocke to give drama, maybe even someone like Morrison who hates them and desires to destroy the relationship will eventually arrive, but it's almost inevitable. besides the fact that they are not together or even that they hardly interact doesn't mean that they are not going to hurt the relationship, they can say things like: you are better than... you kiss better than... you understand me better than ... I love you more than... and will make these new relationships look better, thus damaging the previous one.

[MarvelMaster616]

Lol

This nicely sums up so many issues discussed in this thread and others.