Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation

[Jokerz79]

Jean holding back Cyke's optic blast to see his eyes is so iconic.


Wonder what happens in the next panel...

[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/

That brings up an interesting question I love this scene and their bond during that run but it really wasn't Jean it was Phoenix. Even though Phoenix turned herself into Jean so completely she even believed it so since she was so perfectly duplicated it's easy to say this is what Jean would had done but still is it Jean?

[Wiccan]

That brings up an interesting question I love this scene and their bond during that run but it really wasn't Jean it was Phoenix. Even though Phoenix turned herself into Jean so completely she even believed it so since she was so perfectly duplicated it's easy to say this is what Jean would had done but still is it Jean?

Well, it's technically not Jean, but, it was a cloned body with Jean's memories, personality and part of her soul that the Phoenix took from her original body, and after Inferno Jean got the memories of that and the piece of her soul that was missing. These days Marvel just completely ignores the retcon and pretty much just acknowledges the Phoenix from Claremont's run as Jean. I think Jean herself did so on Morrison's run. Considering all that and that Jean later become a Phoenix host "again" and died like that, at the end of the day it doesn't really matter imo.

Specially cause her bond with the Phoenix was so strong to the point where she was reborn from a Phoenix egg on Here Comes Tomorrow, and in Endsong the Phoenix kinda like had Jean's personality or so, like when she says she came back because Jean wanted to, or when she had feelings for Scott lol. I wish Marvel didn't continued to use the Phoenix all the time as a plot device after Jean's death, if it wasn't for that the "Jean is Phoenix/Phoenix is Jean" perception would be stronger I think...

[MeloDet]

SO I've been wondering recently if Morrison might've drawn more on the movie versions of Scott and Jean for their relationship dynamics. The timing seems to work out, and as people have pointed out before his run differed quite a bit from what came before in his portrayal of Scott and Jean's relationship as estranged & passionless. Personally speaking I was somewhat caught off guard by how little the affair actually upset me given that adultery is normally a sticking point for me. In my case I think it might have to do with the fact that I hadn't read any X-Men before and that Morrison's was my first foray, so I was coming off of the movie versions. The way the story is actually written seems to go out it's way to make the whole thing seem less contemptible. Scott and Jean have almost (or literally?) zero positive/loving moments that might actually make readers (that are relatively new at least) give a shit about all the drama.

It doesn't really make sense as something built off of the previous in continuity stories, but if it was written to sync up tonewise with the movies it makes a lot more sense. Maybe this isn't the right place for the post, but I was wondering if this was something that's been talked about before.

[lancer]

I don't believe that the movie, or movies if you include X2, had anything to do with Morrison's handling of Scott/Jean. If it had, there would have been more Scott/Jean/LOgan. THere was that one issue where they kissed, LOgan broke it off and that was it. Logan spent more time trying to help the marriage than come between them. Morrison said it, in San Diego, in 2001. THere is no SCott/Jean/Logan triangle and there really wasn't. Of course, he neglected to mention Emma.

I believe he wrote the couple based on his interpretation of them based on the comics. Much as I disagreed with how he handled them, I don't believe the movies influenced it. On the other hand, Mark Millar said it was a factor in ULTIMATE X MEN. That he initially hooked Jean and LOgan up based on how he saw their chemistry in the first movie.

[Jokerz79]

Morrison is a great story teller most of his stuff is must reads for me Justice League and All-Star Superman are two of my favorite and there are elements of his run I loved like turning the school into a school again. But there are elements of the films which I hated like the black leather fetish and Jean and Scott's relationship and it's portrayal especially given their story before that Scott was merged with Apocalypse and after a period of "mourning" Jean went on a mission to get her husband back she never looked at another man and barely even interacted with him choosing to lean on Storm, Cable, Beast in their book with Gambit which was a fun run IMO. She finally got Scott back and bam they're portrayed as emotional distant which each other and all of sudden she's got these deep feelings for Logan. I call Bullshit on all of that it felt like someone writing them like they never read a comic with Jean, Scott, and Logan and was going off solely by the 00 Movie which those films always did a disservice to Scott given all his story beats to Logan.

[Legaldrugdealer]

SO I've been wondering recently if Morrison might've drawn more on the movie versions of Scott and Jean for their relationship dynamics. The timing seems to work out, and as people have pointed out before his run differed quite a bit from what came before in his portrayal of Scott and Jean's relationship as estranged & passionless. Personally speaking I was somewhat caught off guard by how little the affair actually upset me given that adultery is normally a sticking point for me. In my case I think it might have to do with the fact that I hadn't read any X-Men before and that Morrison's was my first foray, so I was coming off of the movie versions. The way the story is actually written seems to go out it's way to make the whole thing seem less contemptible. Scott and Jean have almost (or literally?) zero positive/loving moments that might actually make readers (that are relatively new at least) give a shit about all the drama.

It doesn't really make sense as something built off of the previous in continuity stories, but if it was written to sync up tonewise with the movies it makes a lot more sense. Maybe this isn't the right place for the post, but I was wondering if this was something that's been talked about before.

That might make sense. I hated it because it was so out of character for the two. And the excuse was that cyclops being possessed by apocalypse changed him. I never really bought into that which made me hate it more.

[lancer]

THing is, I don't even think that was his excuse. I never saw a Grant Morrison interview where he even mentioned Apocalypse. IMO, what he was saying was that the experience opened SCott's eyes to issues that were there all along and he just didn't see.

Personally, I would have found that more palatable. Well, there was no way they were going to be broken up in a way that I would like. I was too invested in a couple. But I would have found it more objectively workable. Scott came back a completely different person and they don't work anymore is plausible. And that one issue where Jean and LOgan kiss read like that. But once you got into Scott and Emma'a "session" it was all revisionist nonsense.

You can't plausibly break SCott and Jean up working backwards with stuff like the marriage was fake, going through the motions. Way too many comics showed otherwise. Again, in full disclosure, I would have disliked it no matter how it was done. But I would have conceded it as at least somewhat workable if they stayed with Apocalypse fundamentally changing Scott.

I think Morrison viewed it as SCott growing up. THing is, he had already done that long ago.

[Lucas 35]

[donpricetag]

Been hoping for a while that because of his short connection with the PF, that Cyke would be access to the White Hot Room. There he and Jean would have eons of time within a blink of an eye to reconcile, initiate some sort of resurrection of their physical bodies and this return to this plane.

I'd envision this as part of a mini series, at first completely segregated from the X-Men but would ultimately tie back in during, or create, a crossover event. I really love what they are doing with the Ultimates right now. An similar journey with X-Men at their core would be awesome. Heck, they could even be the reason, or means to bring Legion back. He's basically existing in non-existence.

[MarvelMaster616]

I was going to bring this up in another thread, but I felt it worked here too. With Marvel Generations coming up, we have confirmation that O5 Jean will finally meet her adult counterpart. It's something I think a lot of Jean fans have been hoping for. I certainly have been hoping for it as well, if only to see adult Jean again. Marvel has gone to great lengths to avoid any kind of interaction with adult Jean, going all the way back to Phoenix Endsong. I get the sense that was on purpose. I think the writers understood that by interacting with an adult Jean, it added more complications with the Phoenix Force and her most recent death. It also would've complicated Cyclops' story as he became the main leader of the team, which is understandable.

But now adult Cyclops is dead. Emma Frost is back to being a villain again. Cyclops has even wielded the Phoenix Force himself and wielded it well to some extent. I imagine adult Jean knows all of this and has been affected by this to some extent. So when O5 Jean finally meets her, how will that conversation play out? Specifically, what would adult Jean tell her about the Phoenix, her relationship with Cyclops, and her future?

It's hard to say. Personally, I think Bunn (or Hopeless, as I'm not sure who's writing it) will avoid discussing the Cyclops/Jean relationship in this and focus primarily on Jean's future with the Phoenix Force. That's the easiest way to handle it and Marvel does tend to prefer the easy route when it comes to these issues. That said, they may find a way to work it into the story. Adult Jean may tell her younger counterpart that she can't keep avoiding her feelings for O5 Cyclops. She might also tell her she needs to focus on herself for now and avoid any kind of romantic entanglement until she's mentally prepared. I can't imagine the older Jean telling her to avoid Cyclops altogether. That's just not her style. There are other possibilities, but for the moment, I'll be surprised if the relationship comes up during her interaction with Teen Jean.

Whatever happens with Generations, I hope it leads to some meaningful changes with Jean. I think she's been somewhat immature when it comes to confronting the many issues surrounding her future. Then again, she's a teenager and so are her teammates. If nothing else, I think adult Jean will keep that in mind.

[donpricetag]

I was going to bring this up in another thread, but I felt it worked here too. With Marvel Generations coming up, we have confirmation that O5 Jean will finally meet her adult counterpart.

Before, I didn't care much to see this, but now that we know that Teen Jean isn't from the past, but a completely alternate dimension (how did Beast @$%# up a time machine?), I think it'd be interesting. I can see why 616 Jean would have something to say to another version of herself from another world, living in hers. If it were just her younger-self, it'd be her, explaining herself, to herself. Much less of a conversation and more of an instruction manual.

[MarvelMaster616]

Before, I didn't care much to see this, but now that we know that Teen Jean isn't from the past, but a completely alternate dimension (how did Beast @$%# up a time machine?), I think it'd be interesting. I can see why 616 Jean would have something to say to another version of herself from another world, living in hers. If it were just her younger-self, it'd be her, explaining herself, to herself. Much less of a conversation and more of an instruction manual.

I think the whole issue with the timeline is still in flux. Despite that trip O5 Beast took them on in All-New X-men, we saw in X-men Blue that Magneto still wants to send them back to the past. Could he know something that Beast doesn't? Is there another timeline where the O5 are missing? X-men Prime did hint at that so I still think it's plausible that anything O5 Jean does, including anything involving Cyclops, will affect the future. And I think adult Jean will understand this, even if she doesn't say it outright.

It may be the case that adult Jean see's her teenage self as an opportunity to fix past mistakes. Both she and Scott made more than their share, both as individuals and as a couple. I can see her wanting to take advantage of this opportunity, but I can just as easily see Teen Jean resisting. She's a teenager. She's not going to be all that mature about it. There are all sorts of possibilities, both for Jean and for her relationship with Cyclops. It's just a matter of how far Marvel is willing to take it.

[Jokerz79]

I think she'll tell her younger self to be true to herself and trust herself. I also hope she'd tell that every time she was close to the edge it was Scott who pulled her back and vice versa.

[Lokimaru]

Speaking of Children of the Atom had the most truthful line ever.

Wolverine: She's not our Jean.

Cyclops: She was never your Jean. TRUTH.

The insinuation that Jean and Logan were some love story is laughable and created when they released the movies. Jean and Scott loved each other from day one and shared their very thoughts with other an intimacy most people could never stand and would fear. Logan would never want Jean to know his darkest thoughts Scott shared everything. Jean loved Logan as a friend just like Storm and had an attraction but she never wanted him she only wanted Scott and this fan fiction love story created by the X-Men movies and Morrison's Run was false and I loved that line because it was pure truth.

Actually it was Claremont's Retconning of Jean's feeling towards Logan in the Back-up story in Classic X-Men #1 that started the Jean/Logan thing cause he hated what went down between Maddie and Scott in X-Factor #1. Notice Classic X-Men started the same year as X-Factor.

[Jokerz79]

Actually it was Claremont's Retconning of Jean's feeling towards Logan in the Back-up story in Classic X-Men #1 that started the Jean/Logan thing cause he hated what went down between Maddie and Scott in X-Factor #1. Notice Classic X-Men started the same year as X-Factor.

Even that was just adding the attraction angle from Jean into the story but it was never a legit triangle Jean loved Logan but only as a friend she was in love with Scott and Logan never stood a chance until the Morrison run then it was being played as Jean's feelings could be deeper for Logan which was total bull given the 26 years of history between the characters by that point.