Looks like the door has been slammed shut on Connor returning

[MajorHoy]

Is it time for a group virtual hug now?

[stephens2177]

Is it time for a group virtual hug now?

Aslong as I get to hug u a lil longer lol

[C-Dot]

As a Superman fan who at least casually likes the rest of the SuperFam (Lois, Supergirl, Power Girl, Mon-El, Connor, Jon, Lana, John Henry, etc), I think the the best direction for Connor is one that has nothing to do with:

- being the Son of Superman (Jon owns that role for the foreseeable future)

Kon was never the "Son of Superman" until New 52's origin of being cloned from a son. And there wasn't a son angle when he was created.

- being the hybrid clone of Superman (again, too close and too pale an imitation of Jon's role)

Considering that the hybrid was a retcon that made no sense to begin with, I have no qualms with jettisoning the hybrid part (and all the "Lex's role is iconic" is not even remotely true). Jon is the hybrid that makes perfect sense.

- the eventual replacement for Superman (Kal is never getting replaced for realsies, just hard-rebooted back to the beginning every 15 or so years in real-time).

Ok but keep in mind that Kon was a replacement for when Superman died. Not made to be his eventual replacement. And this doesn't mean that they couldn't make him Superman's successor for the "in future" stories with a different Superman. Morrison did that. Other writers did that.

Well, crap, is there anything good that can come from this Connor v Jon dilemma ?

There is since they're not similar characters and can exist in the same universe.

Look at the Batverse with its similar Tim v Damien conundrum. There's a clear winner and loser: the truer son trumps his predecessor there as well.

To be fair, it's not the same. Jon is the biological son of Lois and Clark. Superboy was a clone designed to replace a fallen Superman and created to be Superman. Not the same as Tim and Damien, who are Bruce's adopted son and biological son.

If Connor returns, he needs to be part of the SuperFam minus the genetic connection to Kal.

The biological connection was always there. Before that retcon, Kon was literally designed from the ground up with Kal's genes in mind. If he came back, a full clone or a full clone based on Superman like before with different powers would work.

Keep him a clone, since that is his own niche, but retcon his donors from Lex and Kal to Lana Lang and Bizarro. Have John Henry adopt Connor as his stepson, and have Connor view Kal as a favorite Uncle.

A clone is not the equivalent of a son or daughter unless you clone a son or daughter (which Kon was to Jon Lane Kent). An actual clone is the genetic equivalent of a twin brother or sister, but with differences. An exact genetic copy of a whole organism with no mother and no father. Having two donors or a male and female clone donor doesn't mean you created a kid like Jon. And I'm sorry but Bizarro is far from what I want Kon to be (seeing how Match was ruined in Teen Titans).

The Kon/Kal connection was brotherly from the start. Kon's place in the family was Superman's little brother. Not his son.

Have Connor and Bizarro have the father-son dynamic, except its Connor who teaches Bizarro.

Kon never even had a father/son dynamic with Superman. He did his own thing.

This way Connor has his own cast that still keeps him close to Kal while not duplicating Jon.

He had his own cast before (and I mean the cast that wasn't a Clark-lite retread) and was never like Jon at all. He can have that again. You can make him the creation of Leo Quintum and P.R.O.J.E.C.T. ala All Star Superman. You can make him the creation of the Eradicator (or a Eradicator proxy) using Kryptonian cloning tech with Kon as Eradicator's vision of what the heir of the House of El/Krypton should be ala The Krypton Man. You could make him the second attempt of the Majestic Project to create a Superman (from Team 7...though I liked Kherubim Majestic and New 52 version is different). You can make him a creation of Cadmus like before. You can make him the clone of Superman created by the other examples and discovered by the L.O.S.H. or created in L.O.S.H.'s time with a new premise (The lone heir of the House of El after the Superman Dynasty mysteriously disappeared? Created to bring back the Superman Dynasty? Etc.). You can have Kon created in the future ala Kell-El. Or you can make it a total mystery of where he came from with twists, turns, false leads, and so on. There are roads to take.

Jon existing isn't a problem to me and I have no problem with Jon the character. He's a different character and not even remotely the same as Kon. I feel that both could coexist and Kon can definitely have his own distinct thing. It worked for a decade and change.

[Sacred Knight]

Because of Johns' influence the Lex/Superman hybrid thing will never go away, but it should. With Jon around, more than ever Conner needs to have the uniqueness he had when he was first created back. Bring Paul Westfield back, make him a legitimate threat and villain, and return things so that Conner is genetically his clone and just grown to look like Superman and mimic some of his powers. It was always the superior origin. There was no big name secret behind who he was a clone of but there didn't have to be. He didn't need the shock value because his character was quite original to the Super mythos and he flourished because of that. Johns forced in a shock value reveal then basically turned Conner into young Clark with the "edge" of being afraid that evil was in his genes. Its dumbfounding how generic he became. Rebirth would be the perfect time to jettison all of that. But for that to happen someone would have to convince Johns his changes weren't good.

[Casantrizos]

If and when Kon comes back, I'm pretty certain they're going to use the synergy of the Young Justice TV show to relaunch him. He'll be introduced the same way he is in the cartoon basically. A hidden secret of Cadmus that is discovered in a way completely separated from the DOS story, and functions just as well. Especially if it's Tim that discovers him. I mean DC would be fools not to use that synergy as much as possible considering Rebirth opens with Wally West coming back out of the speedforce and we all know that's going to happen in YJ season 3, also Kaldur/Jackson is exactly his YJ cartoon counterpart with a modified backstory. And with how big DCs going to be pushing their new streaming service where YJ will now be done, it'd be pretty strange for them to have Kon stay relevant in YJ but have him nowhere to be found when viewers go to find him in comics. I'm sure DC is fully aware that Jon and Kon can coexist, and I'm sure they'll do a thing about Kon being the "second Superboy" but there's no need for him to be called anything but Kon.
So i expect Kon to be back around the same time as YJ season 3.

[cxranger]

I was so hoping Conner was Nuperman, hold the fort down until Superdad came back.

Perhaps we can get some re-visit of "Superman of 2020," with Kal-El, Conner, and Jon - three generations together.

I think he'll be back, just too important to be excluded from Rebirth.

[sakuyamons]

But for that to happen someone would have to convince Johns his changes weren't good.

Convincing Geoff that his changes weren't good would be more or less like this

Style-6-talking-to-wall-300x290.jpg

[ARIARAIDEN]

As a Superman fan who at least casually likes the rest of the SuperFam (Lois, Supergirl, Power Girl, Mon-El, Connor, Jon, Lana, John Henry, etc), I think the the best direction for Connor is one that has nothing to do with:

- being the Son of Superman (Jon owns that role for the foreseeable future)

- being the hybrid clone of Superman (again, too close and too pale an imitation of Jon's role)

- the eventual replacement for Superman (Kal is never getting replaced for realsies, just hard-rebooted back to the beginning every 15 or so years in real-time).

This. If you want Kon back he would need these changes otherwise he would be a teen Jon with genetic connections.

[Spiderboy12]

I was so hoping Conner was Nuperman, hold the fort down until Superdad came back.

Perhaps we can get some re-visit of "Superman of 2020," with Kal-El, Conner, and Jon - three generations together.

I think he'll be back, just too important to be excluded from Rebirth.

Not quite the same. Superman 2020 (yes, I remember the feature from the 1970s!) was three generations of Supermen. This is really just two generations with three characters.

[cxranger]

Not quite the same. Superman 2020 (yes, I remember the feature from the 1970s!) was three generations of Supermen. This is really just two generations with three characters.

Agreed, it could be a modern re-telling in a similar spirit, at least regarding the age differences, but not quite the same. Including all three would be cool.

[PyroTwilight]

Folks arguing here about Jon and Kon and I'm just sitting here like

*throws a flower into the air* For Cir-El

[Superlad93]

Ok I'm gonna do something crazy for me,and say IM SORRY.

Yes everything you put in your post is why I get frustrated,and it's compounded by Kon being lost in the shuffle right now.

So to say again,I'm sorry.yes you drive me crazy sometimes,and yeah sometimes I think you dismiss things a lil much,but you are full of ideas and have a good eye for things,and I like most of what you wrote on here.

Thank you. That's big of you, and I genuinely appreciate it. We can all get a bit heated over this stuff sometimes, as I displayed lol. And I don't mean to be dismissive. On a discussion that's probably the last thing I'd want to come off as, so I apologize if I've ever given off that vibe. 9 time out of 10 I'm usually just trying to continue the evolution of a discussion, but knowing that it can come off as dismissive is very good to know, and I'll be sure to do my best to make sure that's not the vibe anymore.

[Superlad93]

Because of Johns' influence the Lex/Superman hybrid thing will never go away, but it should. With Jon around, more than ever Conner needs to have the uniqueness he had when he was first created back. Bring Paul Westfield back, make him a legitimate threat and villain, and return things so that Conner is genetically his clone and just grown to look like Superman and mimic some of his powers. It was always the superior origin. There was no big name secret behind who he was a clone of but there didn't have to be. He didn't need the shock value because his character was quite original to the Super mythos and he flourished because of that. Johns forced in a shock value reveal then basically turned Conner into young Clark with the "edge" of being afraid that evil was in his genes. Its dumbfounding how generic he became. Rebirth would be the perfect time to jettison all of that. But for that to happen someone would have to convince Johns his changes weren't good.

In all honesty, I'm 100% for this. I've been holding on hope for them to finally take advantage of the whole Lex/Superman clone thing, but it has been criminally underutilized or just used as a crutch. On the flip side they're taking full advantage of Jon's hybrid status, but they're also crafting him as a fun a likable character regardless of it (as show by basically everything before Superman issue #20). At this point iconography be damned, Kon worked best before it.

My only hang up is Kenan. Sure he's not a clone, but it's pretty easy to see the 90s Superboy comparisons. Granted most of the comparisons are surface level at best, but it's enough to make your mind go there. DC would have to find a way to reintroduce Kon but keep the comparisons to Kenan away. It's 100% possible so long as DC staves off its natural inclination towards immediate gratification.

I'd hate to see the Lex/Superman hybrid idea die out, though. Maybe create a whole other character? I don't think anyone has even considered that. Maybe an update to the Lex Luthor II idea? Maybe Lex creates him after somehow finding out about the vast potential Jon holds as a hybrid? Sort of take inspiration from Shazam with how Sivana had himself a little twisted family. You could even name him "Junior." Maybe even add in a Lex/Brainiac cloned daughter for good measure? Basically Lex putting both of his greatest rivals under his heel. Both could be great foils for Jon and Kon. Lex looking at Kon like an outdated and inferior version of the idea his "kids" spawned from.

If and when Kon comes back, I'm pretty certain they're going to use the synergy of the Young Justice TV show to relaunch him. He'll be introduced the same way he is in the cartoon basically. A hidden secret of Cadmus that is discovered in a way completely separated from the DOS story, and functions just as well. Especially if it's Tim that discovers him. I mean DC would be fools not to use that synergy as much as possible considering Rebirth opens with Wally West coming back out of the speedforce and we all know that's going to happen in YJ season 3, also Kaldur/Jackson is exactly his YJ cartoon counterpart with a modified backstory. And with how big DCs going to be pushing their new streaming service where YJ will now be done, it'd be pretty strange for them to have Kon stay relevant in YJ but have him nowhere to be found when viewers go to find him in comics. I'm sure DC is fully aware that Jon and Kon can coexist, and I'm sure they'll do a thing about Kon being the "second Superboy" but there's no need for him to be called anything but Kon.
So i expect Kon to be back around the same time as YJ season 3.

What if he were a "Secret Superboy?"

What if Cadmus "Winder Soldered" him? Like what if after Death of Superman Lex got wind of Cadmus' plan to create a human clone approximation of Superman, so, in a spectacular bit of corporate espionage, Lex has the lab where Kon is being made sabotaged and blown up. Amazingly Kon survives, wakes up, and saves as many as he's able. One of the scientist he saves is Paul Westfield (his genetic template and creator). Since the process was interrupted, the clone's growth has been slightly hampered and requires monitoring. Cadmus keeps him under warps for years even after Superman returned (to keep their pet project safe from foes like Lex while he's in such a delicate state). However (based out in Hawaii) Westfield convinces them to let him out to run secret field test and missions, and every time Kon yearns more and more for freedom. He even picks up a jacket from the Newsboys (Westfield doesn't see the harm in letting him keep it) More and more he's intoxicated by the loud and confusing rush of life. During this time he frequently helps out Superman in secret (sometime under orders and sometimes of his own choice).

For example, it was in fact Kon who saved Metropolis from that nuke in one of his early outing, but no one knew it was him. A Cadmus field team scooped him up before eyewitnesses could get a look. It's during these secret years we'll fit in what we can from the 90s run, but with the caveat of it all being in secret. For instance, he'd meet Tana Moon during a mission where he strays too far from his target point, but the idea would be that she'd want him to go public as a hero, but he knows full well that he can't. Some of his other adventures in the 90s could be re contextualized as dreams given to him by Dubbilex because he knows how much Kon loves the outside world. Dubbilex creates these elaborate 3 act structure super heroic dreams for Kon to live out while he waits for his next mission (ala Young Justice and Batman Last Rites). You can put in some of the adventures where Kon teams up with Superman as a way to illustrate his longing to meet the big guy. Eventually Tana dies in real life during a mission she tags along on. Her death hits Kon pretty hard. He's confronted with a maelstrom of painful new emotions. He longs for the cold, quite sleep of his pod--a reprieve from the heartache.

Our young hero finds out that this whole life thing actually has some pretty big downsides to it. This enters a pretty dark period in his life where N.O.W.H.E.R.E., a subsection of Cadmus, preforms a hostile takeover of Westfield's division, and edges him out. The next time our young clone wakes up he's greeted by the unsettling Harvest. They don't allow our hero to put on his signature jacket that he's become so fond of, and they stick him in something akin to the New 52 suit (but maybe a bit closer to his YJ containment suit).

He's an attack dog on a leash that's only unfrozen to do Harvest's bidding. This is where he attacks Tim's iteration of the Titans (but this time it's just Tim, Bart, and Casandra and they don't have awful suits). Eventually Kon helps them take down Harvest (through some clever trickery), but when the Titans go to rescue their man on the inside, Kon, he's nowhere to be found. Turns out Westfield scooped him up at the last minute when Harvest and NOWHERE were at their weakest. Finding Kon has been on the to do list of Tim's team for months, but Tim ends up "dying" and the Titans disband (enter Damian's new team). Kon waits slumbering in his pod for the only friends he has in this world--the only people in the outside world that knows he even exist.

Once Tim breaks out or is let out of Oz's cell, he'll use Oz's monitoring abilities/tech to find out where Kon is and "get the band back together" (this includes making a stop in the future, and getting Bart), and go bust Kon out. Then BAM, he meets Superman formally, tells him about the many times where he's secretly saved his life/helped save the day, earns his trust, and is given the name Kon-El.

So, him being frozen and unfrozen is what keeps him from aging (along with a one time genetic aging issue that he is cured of). This allows him to have been around for Death of Superman (something that happened at least 12 years ago) but still be around Tim's age in the present. Westfield is also the only one who has called him "Superboy" in the past, as a dickish dig at his young age due to being let out too early. Tana almost calls him this, but he stops her short with a "please...I really, really hate that." For the most part he's called Subject Kr till Superman gives him his honorary Kryptonian name, and thanks him for his help.

That's how I'd do it. Basically take a page from Jurgens'/Johns' playbook in how they managed/made a point to fit in the Lois & Clark mini along with a good bit of the New 52. It's not perfect (the New 52 is a bitch to fit in), but I think it works out pretty okay given what we currently know. Plus the Young Justice show connections are baked in strongly, but they don't overtake the classic stuff....or at least a much as I can manage.

[Atomic Man]

I was so hoping Conner was Nuperman, hold the fort down until Superdad came back.

Perhaps we can get some re-visit of "Superman of 2020," with Kal-El, Conner, and Jon - three generations together.

I think he'll be back, just too important to be excluded from Rebirth.

I'm with you, and even though I came to like what we learned in Reborn, Connor being New 52 Superman would have meant he got to be Superman for a time and would hopefully have a chance to live on. As of now, he's missing from the timeline completely, though the same is true of the JSA and the Legion, both of which are returning.

[stephens2177]

1st Geoff John's made kons origin,powers, attitude,and even future more complicated,when he didn't have to.

2nd cir-el and Linda danvers might not ever be back on their own,so why don't they just merge their stories.just say Linda danvers got grabbed up/or offered herself up,experimented on(with supermans DNA),and is now a hero with the "given" kryptonian name cir-el.she could have all Linda's powers( 1/2 powered physicals with a psi blast,and a red sun Omni blast to boot)

Kon origin needs to have a "intertwining" of the kesel and YJ shows origins so BOTH groups will feel that he is "their" Kon.
Can any of you do this? Superlad just did it pretty close,any other ideas while I'm busy and don't want to write anymore right now?