Mighty Thor #18 Spoilers

[Alpha to Omega]

Took less than one page for a couple of trolls to try and ruin a review thread. Must be a new record.

People aren't trolls just because they disagree with you. If you don't want to see people criticize things you like, stay off the internet.

[JKtheMac]

Took less than one page for a couple of trolls to try and ruin a review thread. Must be a new record.

Nope. Early in the run you only needed to open a thread and the first three pages you would need to robustly defend this comic. Or the first question would be a derailing "Do we know the whisper? " from people that knew full well there was no reveal yet, or just started ranting about the name being masculine. Things are improving.

[WaxHawk]

As a 30+ year reader of these books, I'll take a stab at your questions.

1) She could easily become an immortal and live in Valhalla. Remember 'William the Warrior' from the JMS arc? Dude dies, and is seen in Valhalla where he belongs. Jane could be the same. Or, the writers could pay homage to the many, many, many issues in the past where Jane lauds the importance of the medical profession she held so dear, and go back to earth to save lives. Alternatively, Odin could make her a Valkyrie.

2) The 'concept of Thor' crap will disappear when a new writer comes in. Thor is Thor. The guy, and no-one else. If they want to move forward with this diversity angle successfully, Jane will have to stand on her own as a character, and not piggy-back on an existing male hero. The best service that Aaron could do with Jane Foster is to make her a unique hero in her own right, with her own book, her own story, and let her move forward. Put the real Thor back where he was, and let a new generation learn of both as independent heroes.

3) One of the great things about the real Thor is that he fought things head on, and overcame the obstacles as a hero, or lost as a headstrong fool. He relied on his friends to guide him where he needed to be, and to assist in making decisions that were above his intellect. Remember the early issues of Aaron's run when King Thor fought Galactus? I imagine it would be a very similar approach.

Thanks for your response.

1) Aaaah, clearly my knowledge of Valhalla is limited. I haven't read much Thor prior to Aaron's run. I'm assuming that if you are in Valhalla you can't sort of wander around outside it? The concept of 'Jane' joining the Valkyrie is something I hadn't considered. I think I like it but I doubt it would be interesting to Aaron. I wonder what her biggest fans think of it.

2) Well I was talking about this run. I think at some point 'Odinson' is coming back as the main character and I'm just spit balling an idea as to when that might be. A lot of what you say in this bit I agree with in general for legacy heroes but there will be a lot of people that don't.

3) I do remember King Thor v Galactus fight - one of my favourite issues. However I'm not sure that helps with my question here. It is a realllllllyy hypothetical question, so I imagine difficult to answer. In some ways I'm asking how is 'Jane' and 'Odinson' different and how are they the same.

[leo619]

People aren't trolls just because they disagree with you. If you don't want to see people criticize things you like, stay off the internet.

Um, coming into a thread when you have no interest in the character is the very definition of trolling. Especially on a thread called a review thread. The book is on issue 18, which means we're talking about 18 issues deep into character. If you aren't talking about issue 18, which you mostly likely wouldn't because you hate the character, than you're just showing up just to troll. Don't be mad because you fit the bill. If you hate the character, take that to millions of threads about how diverse legacy characters are the anti-christ. Then it's not trolling, but to come into a review thread, especially 18 issues in, when you know you don't read the book just to slander the character, is trolling.

[JKtheMac]

Firstly, if, after this happens, 'Jane' hears the whisper and, like 'Odinson', agrees with it (side note - admittedly she is more righteous or perhaps doesn't question things as much as 'Odinson so I believe is less likely to agree with it) or for some other reason becomes unworthy - What would happen to her as she would no longer have another 'form' to turn back to?

When Blake was separated from Thor we were left with just Thor. Thor has remained the same person. The reason separating Jane from Thor would be potentially interesting would be as a reflection on Blake. (Who according to cannon was originally a real person then retconned to be fake then retconned to be real but replaced and killed, then pulled back for a bit and then declared fake and as good as killed again.) The separation, however brief would ask a number of questions. Is Jane turning into someone different? Can this process evoke a god? I would ask 'can there be more than one Thor' but we seem to be getting a possible answer, and Simonson kind of answered that. As to the worthiness issue itself it would beg the question, do gods need a connection to humanity to be truly worthy, but in many ways we are getting that answer already.

Secondly - What value would 'Jane' then have for exploring and understanding the concept of Thor? Or is this the point Aaron switches back to 'Odinson' to continue his exploration on who Thor is as a concept?

I may have already answered this above, but regardless of whether a Thor personality remains it would be a crux point for Odinson. Especially if War Thor is not an example that Odinson approves of. He would be forced to step up. If the personality remained it would make the gods reconsider what had occurred when Jane lifted the hammer, in a similar way to how Odin reacted to Beta-Ray Bill,

Third question (not related to the above prediction) - How would this story (i.e. the gods challenge/Shi'ar) be different if a worthy 'Odinson' was Thor? I'm asking for an interpretation/guess from people who know the differences between the two Thors, the history of Thor and Aaron's writing better than I do.

I imagine the outcome would be the same, and indeed in many ways this was a trial to prove she was indeed Thor. She pretty much did what you would expect the original to do, including loosing patience. Perhaps the original would have lost patience much earlier, but the timing was quite important. Sticking with it for a while actually provided the victory in the end.

[leo619]

Nope. Early in the run you only needed to open a thread and the first three pages you would need to robustly defend this comic. Or the first question would be a derailing "Do we know the whisper? " from people that knew full well their was no reveal yet, or just started ranting about the name being masculine. Things are improving.

Yeesh, so we got from full pages of trolling to mere posts, I guess that's an improvement lol.

[JKtheMac]

Um, coming into a thread when you have no interest in the character is the very definition of trolling. Especially on a thread called a review thread. The book is on issue 18, which means we're talking about 18 issues deep into character. If you aren't talking about issue 18, which you mostly likely wouldn't because you hate the character, than you're just showing up just to troll. Don't be mad because you fit the bill. If you hate the character, take that to millions of threads about how diverse legacy characters are the anti-christ. Then it's not trolling, but to come into a review thread, especially 18 issues in, when you know you don't read the book just to slander the character, is trolling.

Indeed in some communities you would be quickly told to stop. It is against the rules of more enlightened forums. But I am used to it here, and it isn't a blatant undermining of the thread in this case.

I understand the common cry of "where is my guy", but in many cases it feels like the appeal is missing the point of the story.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Um, coming into a thread when you have no interest in the character is the very definition of trolling. Especially on a thread called a review thread. The book is on issue 18, which means we're talking about 18 issues deep into character.

Technically, this is the 26th issue. Thor, which was essentially a prologue, went on for 8 issues, and now we're 18 issues into Mighty Thor.

[WaxHawk]

When Blake was separated from Thor we were left with just Thor. Thor has remained the same person. The reason separating Jane from Thor would be potentially interesting would be as a reflection on Blake. (Who according to cannon was originally a real person then retconned to be fake then retconned to be real but replaced and killed, then pulled back for a bit and then declared fake and as good as killed again.) The separation, however brief would ask a number of questions. Is Jane turning into someone different? Can this process evoke a god? I would ask 'can there be more than one Thor' but we seem to be getting a possible answer, and Simonson kind of answered that. As to the worthiness issue itself it would beg the question, do gods need a connection to humanity to be truly worthy, but in many ways we are getting that answer already.


I may have already answered this above, but regardless of whether a Thor personality remains it would be a crux point for Odinson. Especially if War Thor is not an example that Odinson approves of. He would be forced to step up. If the personality remained it would make the gods reconsider what had occurred when Jane lifted the hammer, in a similar way to how Odin reacted to Beta-Ray Bill,



I imagine the outcome would be the same, and indeed in many ways this was a trial to prove she was indeed Thor. She pretty much did what you would expect the original to do, including loosing patience. Perhaps the original would have lost patience much earlier, but the timing was quite important. Sticking with it for a while actually provided the victory in the end.

Thanks JKtheMac - I was hoping you'd respond I always enjoy reading your thoughts.

Just a couple of points
1 - Just to clarify - you think it is possible that 'Jane' can remain a god even if she is unworthy. Interesting.

2 - Yes you've given me something to think about here - in fact you're response to part one was arguably more useful to this than part two.

3 - I missed the subtext of it being a trial - that was useful thanks.

Also about the trolling in this thread. I must incredibly naive because I didn't notice it at all.

[Alpha to Omega]

Um, coming into a thread when you have no interest in the character is the very definition of trolling. Especially on a thread called a review thread. The book is on issue 18, which means we're talking about 18 issues deep into character. If you aren't talking about issue 18, which you mostly likely wouldn't because you hate the character, than you're just showing up just to troll. Don't be mad because you fit the bill. If you hate the character, take that to millions of threads about how diverse legacy characters are the anti-christ. Then it's not trolling, but to come into a review thread, especially 18 issues in, when you know you don't read the book just to slander the character, is trolling.

I hadn't even posted in this thread until I replied to your baseless attack on other posters. I only even came into the thread because I saw Michael Watkins had posted and wanted to read his thoughts on the issue only to see your post. None of the posts before yours were even off-topic or inflammatory.

[JKtheMac]

1 - Just to clarify - you think it is possible that 'Jane' can remain a god even if she is unworthy. Interesting.

It depends where Aaron is going with this. But if Jane goes to Valhalla and Thor is left standing there with Mjölnir then it wouldn't be Jane anymore. Just as Thor isn't Blake (and some including Odin claim he never was but that's another issue). So no, in that case Jane wouldn't be a god. We would have a true female Thor. Aaron may not want to explore this. He has made plenty of subtextual comment as it is so it may be overkill to open up that issue further.

The way I see it Jane isn't a god. Aaron has returned to the dual personality archetype of Fawcett Captain Marvel, which Kirby moonlighted on before he helped create Thor.

3 - I missed the subtext of it being a trial

The interesting part was the dissenting voice of Cul, which was forced into a minority position despite technically leading the charge.

[JKtheMac]

As a 30+ year reader of these books, I'll take a stab at your questions.

1) She could easily become an immortal and live in Valhalla. Remember 'William the Warrior' from the JMS arc? Dude dies, and is seen in Valhalla where he belongs. Jane could be the same. Or, the writers could pay homage to the many, many, many issues in the past where Jane lauds the importance of the medical profession she held so dear, and go back to earth to save lives. Alternatively, Odin could make her a Valkyrie.

Indeed this was what I was implying. Although I doubt they will go the Valkyrie route. I think we technically have a full complement of them from Fearless Defenders. As my PS earlier suggests, we do have a precedence of returning from Valhalla by being reincorporated with a god. In Fearless defenders Annabelle was in Valhalla and Valkyrie quested for her to return, which Clea managed by binding them together in one body.

Digital Fearless Defenders V2013 #7 (2013_9) - Page 3.jpg

Fearless Defenders #7 (2013) - Cullen Bunn, Stephanie Hans.

There were so many great things about Fearless Defenders but it was also a little disappointing in places. The Mark Brooks covers were always great though. If I remember correctly it was that volume that started the action figure cover phenomenon.

P.S. There is a question of whether Brunnhilde is actually a goddess or a demigod. I believe the official Marvel line is that she is a goddess. She was of course mortal once.

[Sardorim]

So, Gladiator forgot all about Rachel.

Guess he's still feeling the bruises when she kicked him around with just a fragment of the Phoenix Force.

[JKtheMac]

So, Gladiator forgot all about Rachel.

Guess he's still feeling the bruises when she kicked him around with just a fragment of the Phoenix Force.

All he said was "There is no stopping the Phoenix". I don't think he had got as far as thinking about possible options, of which there were a few on Earth. The Context was more related to the Asgardians not being enough, even if willing.

[leo619]

I hadn't even posted in this thread until I replied to your baseless attack on other posters. I only even came into the thread because I saw Michael Watkins had posted and wanted to read his thoughts on the issue only to see your post. None of the posts before yours were even off-topic or inflammatory.

Um yes, saying the Mighty Thor shouldn't exist and should be her own character and how Odinson is the real thor is every bit inflammatory and off-topic, seeing as it has absolutely nothing to do with the actual review of issue 18. So you can claim baseless all you want, but if you aren't interested in the character, and only come into the thread to bash the character when the review is about a book 18 issues in, that's trolling, period. (Not you specifically because you didn't bash the character, but you can definitely tell who did by how you responded that people "don't agree with you.")