Mighty Thor #18 Spoilers

[JKtheMac]

Couple of issues ago this Thor beat up Odin without him getting even a single clean hit in. Rachel shouldn't be as powerful as all that, but should however be the person you call in if you want to know what you are doing fighting the Phoenix.

Totally disagree for multiple reasons. Primarily being Aaron has no reason to even pitch for the use of Rachel, and if he did he would have been turned down. Rachel wasn't totally messed up by the following writer, Quire was. He needs some character work.

[ViewtifulJC]

I have a hard time reconcilling Aaron's Quire with Morrison's Quire. Like sometimes I think he shouldn't been brought back as this rebellious caricacture, because originally he seemed like a honest portrayal of teen angst and resentment mixed with Marvel's unique brand of disillusionment.

[JKtheMac]

I have a hard time reconcilling Aaron's Quire with Morrison's Quire. Like sometimes I think he shouldn't been brought back as this rebellious caricacture, because originally he seemed like a honest portrayal of teen angst and resentment mixed with Marvel's unique brand of disillusionment.

I thought he handled Quire quite well. He emphasised the ironic angle. That 'rebel without a clue' angle. More affectation than serious rebellion, and enough intelligence to know everyone is letting him get away with it.

[DurararaFTW]

Totally disagree for multiple reasons. Primarily being Aaron has no reason to even pitch for the use of Rachel, and if he did he would have been turned down. Rachel wasn't totally messed up by the following writer, Quire was. He needs some character work.

Then justify it in universe. An alt universe future Quire being a Phoenix host does not make current Quire qualified obviously. If Rachel was unavailable for whatever reason then fine. Just don' t actively pretend she does not exist. Thought those days were behind us with Resurrexion.

And Quire was fine under Brain Woods' pen. The way he interacted with the other students in the X-Men back issues there is what Gen X should be calling upon IMO.

[JKtheMac]

Then justify it in universe. An alt universe future Quire being a Phoenix host does not make current Quire qualified obviously. If Rachel was unavailable for whatever reason then fine. Just don' t actively pretend she does not exist. Thought those days were behind us with Resurrexion.

And Quire was fine under Brain Woods' pen. The way he interacted with the other students in the X-Men back issues there is what Gen X should be calling upon IMO.

This is a fictional universe. Justification is the story and the editorial direction. But I already justified it in universe. Quire was easy to locate, has a reason to help, and is known as a friend by three of the people present. Rachel is hardly the most approachable character, easier to go to a friend. But if you don't agree with that it is entirely up to you to come up with your own justification. Quire is Aaron's character these days, he isn't prominent in any of the current X-books and Aaron wants him. That's good enough for me.

[DurararaFTW]

This is a fictional universe. Justification is the story and the editorial direction. But I already justified it in universe. Quire was easy to locate, has a reason to help, and is known as a friend by three of the people present. Rachel is hardly the most approachable character, easier to go to a friend. But if you don't agree with that it is entirely up to you to come up with your own justification. Quire is Aaron's character these days, he isn't prominent in any of the current X-books and Aaron wants him. That's good enough for me.

He's not easier to approach then literally anyone else on planet Earth. They had go to the guy that can see everything and then use magical teleport. At that point they could've gone to the White Dimension and picked up Jean for the same money. Or anyone of the Phoenix Five. Or the Stepford Cuckoos, or Hope Summers or anyone of the X-Men that defeated the Dark Phoenix or Rachel. Most of whom aren't at their current location as a concious effort to get away from getting sucked into adventures. And by what standard is Quire Aaron's character? He's not the first one to use him, he's not the one used him last and he's slated to start in a new X-Book as part of the current relaunch. Are Gladiator and the Phoenix Aaron characters too because someone else wasn't using them right this second?

[Ciriaco]

Another great issue! However there's one thing with the storytelling I found odd/confusing. The last issue there was a lot of buildup to the 'ultimate judgement'. Shadrak was devastated that it had been unleashed and we got a dramatic cliffhanger. Cut to this issue where it's not mentioned at all but instead we see another world-ending threat being unleashed. And if the ultimate judgement really is Mangog (which the cliffhanger in #17 and the premonitions in #18 suggests) all that buildup is undercut since he really is dwarfed by the Phoenix.

I guess this is very deliberate and that it's supposed to create a sense of epic madness but for me it feels a bit haphazard. Minor nitpick of course.

[JKtheMac]

He's not easier to approach then literally anyone else on planet Earth. They had go to the guy that can see everything and then use magical teleport. At that point they could've gone to the White Dimension and picked up Jean for the same money. Or anyone of the Phoenix Five. Or the Stepford Cuckoos, or Hope Summers or anyone of the X-Men that defeated the Dark Phoenix or Rachel. Most of whom aren't at their current location as a concious effort to get away from getting sucked into adventures. And by what standard is Quire Aaron's character? He's not the first one to use him, he's not the one used him last and he's slated to start in a new X-Book as part of the current relaunch. Are Gladiator and the Phoenix Aaron characters too because someone else wasn't using them right this second?

Like I say, you have a choice as a reader to go along with the story or not. This is the character I want to see in this story.

[JKtheMac]

Another great issue! However there's one thing with the storytelling I found odd/confusing. The last issue there was a lot of buildup to the 'ultimate judgement'. Shadrak was devastated that it had been unleashed and we got a dramatic cliffhanger. Cut to this issue where it's not mentioned at all but instead we see another world-ending threat being unleashed. And if the ultimate judgement really is Mangog (which the cliffhanger in #17 and the premonitions in #18 suggests) all that buildup is undercut since he really is dwarfed by the Phoenix.

I guess this is very deliberate and that it's supposed to create a sense of epic madness but for me it feels a bit haphazard. Minor nitpick of course.

It seemed pretty clear that he was a very long way away. I don't expect him to turn up for a few months. This story wasn't about that. It is clear now that the reason the Shi'ar were chosen as the antagonists was in order to introduce the Phoenix. The buildup is still in play. Remember how long it took to get to Surtur in Simonson's run? This is the same play book. Indeed for those less familiar with the claws, this book is still only a hint that he was the creature coming out of the volcano. Many more recent readers, of which there are many for this book, won't even know who he is or what relevance he has to Thor continuity. They will notice the claws in the vision if they are observant. No name drop was used, and those people may avoid places like this as being places where the story could be spoilt.

Indeed I am intrigued how they will use Mangog. He must have been changed, and how will be interesting. I doubt he was chosen just because he is an old classic character. Aaron will be asking a question or otherwise exploring the characters, because that's what he does.

[Ciriaco]

Fair enough. Since the judgement seemed to be part of this god-competition I guess I thought that appearance would be closer in time and when something else showed up it threw me off a bit.

[JKtheMac]

Fair enough. Since the judgement seemed to be part of this god-competition I guess I thought that appearance would be closer in time and when something else showed up it threw me off a bit.

I think it was a bit of a misdirect. For those not following preview covers it probably comes as more of a surprise. I have been looking forward to Quire popping up for months now.

[Ciriaco]

I think it was a bit of a misdirect. For those not following preview covers it probably comes as more of a surprise. I have been looking forward to Quire popping up for months now.

I always stay clear of previews and solicits as to not spoil anything. Based on my posts in this thread one could question my judgment .

[leo619]

I find your response fascinating.

I'm guessing, after reading this post, that you mean Thursaiz, who first replied to my questions as he clearly prefers 'Odinson' to 'Jane' (I think it is ok to have that opinion). I didn't fell that he was bashing 'Jane' though.

I wasn't the least bit offended by what he had to say - he came up with some interesting points (especially about Valhalla) and they were all directly related to my questions. I didn't feel for a second that he posted for any other reason but to answer my questions. I'm truly surprised that anyone would be annoyed or offended at what he had to say.

Well to Mighty Thor fans, it's pretty obvious how his comment is entirely trollish. But if you want an explanation, sure, here you go.

2) The 'concept of Thor' crap will disappear when a new writer comes in. Thor is Thor. The guy, and no-one else. If they want to move forward with this diversity angle successfully, Jane will have to stand on her own as a character, and not piggy-back on an existing male hero. The best service that Aaron could do with Jane Foster is to make her a unique hero in her own right, with her own book, her own story, and let her move forward. Put the real Thor back where he was, and let a new generation learn of both as independent heroes.

A) He completely attempts to say this character he doesn't like, should not exist. That is the very essence of a trollish comment. First of all, he says in order for this character "to be successful", she needs to be stripped of almost everything that made her popular to begin with. Never mind the fact that she's the best selling new legacy character release by Marvel, but to be "successful" in "his eyes", this character needs to be a brand new character, as if legacy characters does not exist. The biggest and boldish part of this comment is that he's saying that even though ten's of thousands of people love this character and pick up this book, that they should get rid of this character because HE does not like this character. Not only is this the very definition of trolling, but it's completely selfish and shows a whole new meaning of entitlement. You will rarely ever if see a Mighty Thor fan saying Odinson should not exist. And it's this very dynamic that hits the heart of his comments being a troll, as it has absolutely nothing to do with the contents if issue 18 but instead reflects his own personal distaste for the character.

B) He claims this thor isn't the "real" thor which is a slap to the face to the many fans who enjoy her and see her every bit as the real thor as odinson. This is a common ploy used by trolls to try and remove legitimacy towards something they do not like, even though they do not control who is "real", Marvel does. So to fit with their own warped motto of their nostalgic enslavement, they attempt to warp their own reality and then PUSH that reality onto others as if they are the final say on who is real, and who is not real. Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with issue 18 and instead would fit into the listing of threads from people that hate diversity legacy characters.


I can go on and on but the above is pretty much squarely illustrated why his comments were every bit trollish and annoying. Now if you still can't see how his comments are trollish than that means your viewpoint about Jane more aligns with his and thus no amount of explaining will illustrate how he, in this thread, was trolling.

[JKtheMac]

I always stay clear of previews and solicits as to not spoil anything. Based on my posts in this thread one could question my judgment .

I don't read the text in previews themselves but I see the art people post on the appreciation threads and I see the covers. But I am slightly obsessed with this book. I was going a little crazy waiting for this issue because it was a longer wait than usual. In an ideal world I would quite like not to be spoiled. For most comics I have no idea what is going to happen next apart from speculation.

[leo619]

The phoenix has been portrayed in many ways. Like everyone else that has been around that long it has been retconned a few times. The last major time it was around it was doing its usual thing of possessing people. In general it is always portrayed as a pretty serious threat and of course, capable of consuming a star.

Quire is supposed to be the next host, and is supposed to have some control over it while it is in him. Usually that is quite difficult, it has a habit of changing people's outlook. Not sure that is where this story will go.

In Secret Wars God Emperor Doom went up against Cyclops as Phoenix. Doom was all-powerful in Secret Wars. Besides Phoenix can't be destroyed forever. It will always rise from the ashes. That is after all in its nature.

Yeah, Secret Wars was my last recollection of Pheonix and because of Cyclops showing, I guess it reduced my opinion of the character. So it's kind of hard seeing it as a grave threat once again. I mean I honestly thought Pheonix was around the level of like Odin.