Which Phoenix/Phoenix Force will Jean Grey be dealing with?

[WallStreeter]

Actually, Morrison followed the continuity that the Phoenix Force was its own sentient entity that possesses people. Hence, when Jean confronted Emma over her psychic affair with Scott, she knocked Scott out of the room and then told Emma, "Now its just you, me, and the Phoenix."

Also, in Excalibur, it was established that there have been tons of hosts for the PF.

When the PF first came into being in canon, Marvel had not really worked out all the bugs on what the Phoenix Force was. Originally, it was supposed to be something tethered only to Jean and her lineage, however, by Excalibur, they settled on it being a sentient cosmic abstract entity that has possessed many people since the creation of the universe. This has been the prevailing story of the PF for the overwhelming majority of its existence as a Marvel Comics character. Morrison simply built on that and AvX made it so that anybody can now serve as host to the PF.

Really and truly the handbook of the Marvel Universe more or less said the Phoenix touches everyone, so to a degree everyone is a Phoenix host. Some people get more of a connection than others and get to manifest Phoenix powers. Jean Grey has been said to be the Prime Host by the handbook.

Excalibur mentioned the first Phoenix host on Earth, Feron. But I don't think Excalibur was the first to mention previous Phoenixes. During the Dark Phoenix saga the Shi'ar spoke of the legendary chaos bringer that Jean Grey had become. Since they seemed to have prior knowledge of it, this is an indication that there may have been previous Phoenix manifestations.

[rutog98]

They already done so. But Quesada wanted to keep Jean dead, and keep the Phoenix concept around, which is why we got stories it possessing Emma and the Cuckoos, and then AvX. Still, none of the other hosts could stay on target and do their job . The P5 were unable to stay focused and break Wanda's spell. Jean as Phoenix saved the universe twice, and saved the world on multiple times, and in X-Factor 50 she used the Phoenix power to save another world. Hopeless, in his ranking of Phoenix hosts said Jean was the most powerful.

Wait a sec, Jean could never stay in control of the PF's powers for long either unless the PF's powers were cut back. When she wielded the PF in the X-Factor story you are referring to, she only had a fraction of the cosmic entity in her. Other Phoenix hosts throughout history were able to wield the power and not go insane. I have never read anywhere that every single host of the PF throughout the history of the universe went crazy with the power. Also, Rachel handled the power very well for a very long time.

[rutog98]

Really and truly the handbook of the Marvel Universe more or less said the Phoenix touches everyone, so to a degree everyone is a Phoenix host. Some people get more of a connection than others and get to manifest Phoenix powers. Jean Grey has been said to be the Prime Host by the handbook.

Excalibur mentioned the first Phoenix host on Earth, Feron. But I don't think Excalibur was the first to mention previous Phoenixes. During the Dark Phoenix saga the Shi'ar spoke of the legendary chaos bringer that Jean Grey had become. Since they seemed to have prior knowledge of it, this is an indication that there may have been previous Phoenix manifestations.

Morrison established Jean as being the Prime Host of the PF when he made her the White Phoenix of the Crown. It never really made sense to me, however, given that other people could wield the PF and handle the power better than she. They did not go crazy.

[Bart]

Wait a sec, Jean could never stay in control of the PF's powers for long either unless the PF's powers were cut back. When she wielded the PF in the X-Factor story you are referring to, she only had a fraction of the cosmic entity in her. Other Phoenix hosts throughout history were able to wield the power and not go insane. I have never read anywhere that every single host of the PF throughout the history of the universe went crazy with the power. Also, Rachel handled the power very well for a very long time.

Are you joking? She handled it just fine in Morrison's run. No Hellfire Club to muck around with her mind. Where did she go crazy there? In fact she understood the purpose of being Phoenix more than any other past Phoenix. By the end she had ascended to the White Phoenix of the Crown, fully aware of her duties.

[Bart]

Actually, Morrison followed the continuity that the Phoenix Force was its own sentient entity that possesses people. Hence, when Jean confronted Emma over her psychic affair with Scott, she knocked Scott out of the room and then told Emma, "Now its just you, me, and the Phoenix."

Also, in Excalibur, it was established that there have been tons of hosts for the PF.

When the PF first came into being in canon, Marvel had not really worked out all the bugs on what the Phoenix Force was. Originally, it was supposed to be something tethered only to Jean and her lineage, however, by Excalibur, they settled on it being a sentient cosmic abstract entity that has possessed many people since the creation of the universe. This has been the prevailing story of the PF for the overwhelming majority of its existence as a Marvel Comics character. Morrison simply built on that and AvX made it so that anybody can now serve as host to the PF.

Morrison touched on continuity but also expanded on it. He established that ascending to a Phoenix is a state of higher consciousness. We see the dark speech bubbles coming from Jean throughout various points of the run. Jean asks, are these words from the future? In Here Comes Tomorrow, when future Jean as the White Phoenix of the Crown says "Live, Scott, Live," so does the dying Jean in her phoenix voice.

He also established that Jean's blood is phoenix blood. It's in her very genes to wield that power, which is why Sublime was able to wield it when it injected himself with her blood. Also why her children are able to wield that power.

[NewCanaanite]

Technically, Jean never went crazy from the Phoenix force. Only the original Dark Phoenix was a duplicate of Jean Grey, driven mad by Mastermind's manipulations.

[Bart]

Technically, Jean never went crazy from the Phoenix force. Only the original Dark Phoenix was a duplicate of Jean Grey, driven mad by Mastermind's manipulations.

Marvel has been referring to the original Jean as the Dark Phoenix for a while now. Whichever way you subscribe, though, her going Dark Phoenix was heavily influenced by the Hellfire Club corrupting and seducing her. However, Jean handled the power just fine in Morrison's run.

[NewCanaanite]

Marvel has been referring to the original Jean as the Dark Phoenix for a while now. Whichever way you subscribe, her going Dark Phoenix was heavily influenced by the Hellfire Club corrupting and seducing her. However, Jean handled the power just fine in Morrison's run.

That's my point, exactly. The Phoenix that went dark in Claremont's run was not Jean, it was a Jean duplicate. Jean handled the Phoenix just fine in Morrison's run, and Rachel handled it just fine as well. It's why I hated it in AvX when they describe the Phoenix as an energy being that takes a host and then lays waste to its surroundings. It demonstrated a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Phoenix is. And then of course Cyclops had to go Dark Phoenix at the end, because I guess every Phoenix story has to end that way now. Did I mention that I hate AvX?

[Bart]

That's my point, exactly. The Phoenix that went dark in Claremont's run was not Jean, it was a Jean duplicate. Jean handled the Phoenix just fine in Morrison's run, and Rachel handled it just fine as well. It's why I hated it in AvX when they describe the Phoenix as an energy being that takes a host and then lays waste to its surroundings. It demonstrated a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Phoenix is. And then of course Cyclops had to go Dark Phoenix at the end, because I guess every Phoenix story has to end that way now. Did I mention that I hate AvX?

Yeah AvX was horrible. I hope it's never mentioned again. lol

[WallStreeter]

Morrison established Jean as being the Prime Host of the PF when he made her the White Phoenix of the Crown. It never really made sense to me, however, given that other people could wield the PF and handle the power better than she. They did not go crazy.

To be fair to Jean, had Xavier not delayed the development of her powers, as a more experienced telepath she would have seen through Mastermind's deceptions and never would have fallen pray to his machinations and ultimately become Dark Phoenix.

Notice how Jean as an experienced telepath/telekinetic handle the Phoenix power just fine during the Morrison run. Overall even in the original run she saved the universe. She saved the universe again during the Morrison run, and save the world on more than one occasion as well. She was the most powerful host as more Phoenix hosts can't get to that level. Look at the P5? They never left Earth before losing their connection to the Phoenix, and were not able to break Wanda's spell.

[WallStreeter]

That's my point, exactly. The Phoenix that went dark in Claremont's run was not Jean, it was a Jean duplicate. Jean handled the Phoenix just fine in Morrison's run, and Rachel handled it just fine as well. It's why I hated it in AvX when they describe the Phoenix as an energy being that takes a host and then lays waste to its surroundings. It demonstrated a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Phoenix is. And then of course Cyclops had to go Dark Phoenix at the end, because I guess every Phoenix story has to end that way now. Did I mention that I hate AvX?

Marvel stopped making the distinction by the time Jean had the Phoenix force in the Morrison run. She has the same memories, same genetic code, and same powers as the other. There's no real difference and it's more like the same self was split between two identical bodies.

[NewCanaanite]

Marvel stopped making the distinction by the time Jean had the Phoenix force in the Morrison run. She has the same memories, same genetic code, and same powers as the other. There's no real difference and it's more like the same self was split between two identical bodies.

True. There's also that scene written by Claremont in Classic X-Men where Jean Grey's soul talks to Death after the battle on the moon. Regardless, the Phoenix going crazy in that story arc was misunderstood by later writers as simply the end result of every Phoenix host, whereas it was initially conceived as Mastermind's manipulations causing the Phoenix to relish the feelings of anger, hate, and destruction. Later Phoenix hosts had no problems maintaining control

[Phoenixx9]

To be fair to Jean, had Xavier not delayed the development of her powers, as a more experienced telepath she would have seen through Mastermind's deceptions and never would have fallen pray to his machinations and ultimately become Dark Phoenix.

Notice how Jean as an experienced telepath/telekinetic handle the Phoenix power just fine during the Morrison run. Overall even in the original run she saved the universe. She saved the universe again during the Morrison run, and save the world on more than one occasion as well. She was the most powerful host as more Phoenix hosts can't get to that level. Look at the P5? They never left Earth before losing their connection to the Phoenix, and were not able to break Wanda's spell.

Truth, truth, truth!

And, I know people want to say that it was Jean the first time around as DP and not the PF in Jean's human form. But Jean in New X-Men herself said to Cyclops that the first time it was only a portion of herself trying to control the PF, unlike then which was her--- all of her--- in control. Jean was in total perfect control.

[NewCanaanite]

Maybe I'm overthinking this....but I'd kind of like some kind of explanation as to why Jean is the perfect Phoenix host. It always just strikes me as somewhat arbitrary. Jean is the prime phoenix host because reasons. Also, wasn't Rachel supposed to be the One True Phoenix host at one point? Unless it's supposed to just be this mysterious thing, like some people have natural compatibility with the Phoenix, for unknown reasons. I guess Star Wars is sort of like that (and don't you dare bring up midichlorians).

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Maybe I'm overthinking this....but I'd kind of like some kind of explanation as to why Jean is the perfect Phoenix host. It always just strikes me as somewhat arbitrary. Jean is the prime phoenix host because reasons. Also, wasn't Rachel supposed to be the One True Phoenix host at one point? Unless it's supposed to just be this mysterious thing, like some people have natural compatibility with the Phoenix, for unknown reasons. I guess Star Wars is sort of like that (and don't you dare bring up midichlorians).

Honestly it shouldn't "NEED" a host at all, but it's unfortunately at the whims of whatever writer is allowed to use it and marvel probably doesn't make much money off of comics, (print media is NOT a thriving business) so they probably don't care as long as it doesn't cost them money and there will ALWAYS be fans who buy the books out of compulsion instead of saying "i'm not buying this because of bad quality"