POLL: THE NEW SUPERMAN ORIGIN ...what did you think?

[manofsteel1979]

So...update. apparently I'm not banned anymore and the Mods over at Comicvine have acknowledged the plagiarism of this thread and locked that one until further notice. Not that I care if I'm banned there or not,but good on the Mods there for acknowledging that there was theft taking place.

What I find sad and hilarious is not the poll getting copied. I actually find it flattering in an odd way,but they copied my OP word for word and pretended my opinion was their own. I mean, they couldn't even bother to make their own original post and present their own view?

[Adekis]

It's pretty pathetic of them manofsteel1979. I'm glad that someone over there un-banned you and took a fair look at your claim, but it's still weird that they did it only after knee-jerk banning you.

Interesting. I always imagined New 52 Superman as the pre flashpoint Superman with the pre crisis parts of him removed. Growing up, for better or worse with his popularity, Superman was just one guy to me. New 52 Superman felt like a more clear change, and he reminded me more of Sonic the hedgehog than the old guy. And that's not a knock because I also grew up on Sonic.

I think the New 52 Superman had a lot of pre-Crisis in him, but I'll admit it was re-framed to make him seem younger. I think the Mike Grell Superboy is the closest direct pre-Crisis comparison to the New 52 Superman just because they both look quite young, with the Golden Age Superman a close second. That youthful impulsiveness is probably what draws the Sonic comparisons. Still, I'd say that the pre-Flashpoint era, at least towards the end, added to the post-Crisis era from the Dick Donner movies and the Silver age (which did not go that well together). If the New 52 seemed like the pre-Flashpoint stuff without the pre-Crisis stuff, I'd guess it's because the Silver Agey stuff is all that's left of the immediate pre-Flashpoint period once you remove the post-Crisis and Dick Donner stuff.

Quoted for truth, this is not a merger.

Haha, thanks for your vote of support! We've agreed on stuff like this a lot in the past though, huh?

It does really bug me that the so-called "Ultimate" "merged" Superman is really just the Rebirth Superman without the convoluted multiple universes backstory.

[Miles To Go]

It's pretty pathetic of them manofsteel1979. I'm glad that someone over there un-banned you and took a fair look at your claim, but it's still weird that they did it only after knee-jerk banning you.

I would'nt worry too much about comicvine for much longer, they're going down the tubes from what I hear, a lot of the site's main features are in the process of shutting down. At least manofsteel got justice.

[Last Son of Krypton]

So...update. apparently I'm not banned anymore and the Mods over at Comicvine have acknowledged the plagiarism of this thread and locked that one until further notice. Not that I care if I'm banned there or not,but good on the Mods there for acknowledging that there was theft taking place.

What I find sad and hilarious is not the poll getting copied. I actually find it flattering in an odd way,but they copied my OP word for word and pretended my opinion was their own. I mean, they couldn't even bother to make their own original post and present their own view?

It isn't even the first time that posts got copied from here to Comicvine or vice versa. Just a few weeks ago, a Vine user decided to get a CBR account after seeing that one of his post was copied here.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Quoted for truth, this is not a merger. this is simply Post-Crisis Superman.

Haha, thanks for your vote of support! We've agreed on stuff like this a lot in the past though, huh?

It does really bug me that the so-called "Ultimate" "merged" Superman is really just the Rebirth Superman without the convoluted multiple universes backstory.

It's a replacement rather than a merger. They don't fool anyone.

[Prime]

Uhhh it's meh

[Sacred Knight]

It's a replacement because its a merger. And its replacing both New 52 AND post-Crisis. This is in essence pretty much a different version. It fits neither seamlessly. Hell I was the one saying the most it was going to end up more a reversion than anything else. But the material doesn't lie. The latest issue of Action cements that they really did combine the two together into something new.

[Prime]

I'm pretty sure we will get another Superman origin soon.

[Adekis]

It fits neither seamlessly.

Right on. Consider: Eradicator calls Henshaw "old friend". Despite this, 978 contains a visual reference to Return of Superman, to a scene where Eradicator helps Superman kill Henshaw! Also in 978: the John Corben who was redeemed in Savage Dawn is replaced with a generic Kryptonite Terminator trapped in a prison we definitely never saw him thrown into, and swears revenge against a man we last saw him kind of admire. In other words, as you said, it fits neither of its predecessors.

I thought DC might be trying to transition to a less continuity-obsessed, more holistic "mythos" based approach. That still could be happening, and we're just experiencing the timeline-lover-satiation growing pains, but I kind of doubt it.

I'm pretty sure we will get another Superman origin soon.

Christ, if that happens we'll be right back to the same problem the New 52 temporarily fixed - the problem of getting a new Superman origin every two damn years at the least!

[Kuwagaton]

To be honest, the lack of Superboy isn't nearly as troubling in the sense that they've deleted a great character as it is that they've mangled the reference made by the greatest variant of all time:

. If the New 52 seemed like the pre-Flashpoint stuff without the pre-Crisis stuff, I'd guess it's because the Silver Agey stuff is all that's left of the immediate pre-Flashpoint period once you remove the post-Crisis and Dick Donner stuff.

I'm not really sure how I feel about the "silver age" type additions made after 2000. One hand I welcomed those things, but on the other... I wouldn't have cared if they stayed gone. The regular post-crisis Superman was enough like the pre-crisis version in all the ways I already cared about. When the New 52 hit, I loved the first issue of Morrison's AC, but it didn't even feel like the same guy Snyder threw into his first issue of Swamp Thing.

Right on. Consider: Eradicator calls Henshaw "old friend". Despite this, 978 contains a visual reference to Return of Superman, to a scene where Eradicator helps Superman kill Henshaw! Also in 978: the John Corben who was redeemed in Savage Dawn is replaced with a generic Kryptonite Terminator trapped in a prison we definitely never saw him thrown into, and swears revenge against a man we last saw him kind of admire.

I'm willing to bet Raddy and Hank will be very complicated. I wasn't reading back when Corben became good or whatever, but was it something that just happened or did he go on to be an ally in stories that followed?

[Robotman]

Still pissed that they got rid of t shirt and jeans Year One Superman.

[Netherman14]

What especially sets me off, is the fact Superman is wearing his bio-armor when he's married. when the New 52 version (back when Clark and Kal were still considered their own people) wore it while he was single.

Action Comics #978 (2017) - Page 12.jpg tumblr_n1t6p45Z6h1qkchcvo1_1280.jpg

[Adekis]

I'm not really sure how I feel about the "silver age" type additions made after 2000. One hand I welcomed those things, but on the other... I wouldn't have cared if they stayed gone. The regular post-crisis Superman was enough like the pre-crisis version in all the ways I already cared about. When the New 52 hit, I loved the first issue of Morrison's AC, but it didn't even feel like the same guy Snyder threw into his first issue of Swamp Thing.

I uh, I don't really have a response to that. Ironically, I actually disliked a lot of the revived Silver age elements, but I really liked them once reframed with the younger, more impulsive Superman post-Flashpoint. And I, uh, I guess that's all that I have to say about that.

I'm willing to bet Raddy and Hank will be very complicated. I wasn't reading back when Corben became good or whatever, but was it something that just happened or did he go on to be an ally in stories that followed?

What stories that followed? Savage Dawn led right into Final Days of Superman! Anyway, I don't remember whether John got his Kryptonite heart back when Superman was done with it, but I'm pretty sure they framed him giving it to Kal in the first place as a heroic self-sacrifice. It's possible he stayed offline afterward.

[Atomic Man]

There are things I really enjoyed in Morrison's Action and thus, about the New 52 Supeman: proto-costume, Superboy operating in the future with the LoSH, working first for the Daily Star, the encounter with the Collector of Worlds. Everything else that happened in the New 52 era is not even worth mentioning, IMO.

There were two things I hated: that atrocious suit of armor, and the return to the Kents dying before Clark is Superman.

Of the two, the second is the worst. I don't think we need to have the Kents in every single current-day story, but knowing they lived to see Clark finally figure out how to operate openly (and to see them HELP HIM FIGURE THAT OUT) is among the most poignant moments in the origin and mythos of Superman.

Instead of taking stuff that could have made for interesting storytelling going forward, like the Daily Star gig or the proto costume, the Kents, who made Kal-El and Clark Kent SUPERMAN, have been removed again, a poor attempt at (I imagine) creating drama where it wasn't needed. The Kents could have still died later, AFTER living to see Clark's adventures as Superman and playing a role in them (DoS, Death of Clark Kent, Action #775, many others). Instead, they're swept under the rug like Peter Parker's parents were.