POLL: THE NEW SUPERMAN ORIGIN ...what did you think?

[Ascended]

I chose the first option, but that's only because all the others didn't really fit. The poll needed an option along the lines of "Like it—mostly. There are some things I miss or have reservations about."

Mostly, I like the fact that Superman's new timeline is able to incorporate so much of his history. I'm taking it for granted that some of the variant costumes we see Kal-El wearing might represent adventures that occurred after the marriage, and after Jon's birth; I'd hate to think you'd cram most adventures from a span of 25 years into just a few years (probably no more than 5 or 6) between his first appearance and Jon's birth. And I actually do like the fact they tried to bring in New 52 elements, though their method of doing it seems a bit clumsy.

What I'm not as fond of is the omission of many of the Silver/Bronze Age elements partly reintroduced by Secret Origin, post-IC. That's still the Superman I grew up with, and I still miss much of that. The biggest "gift" of IC was to restore part of Superman's teenage career as Superboy, especially (but not limited to) his time with the Legion of Super-Heroes. (I have reservations about Clark being "secret Superboy", but it's better than no career at all.) Other "Superboy" features missing from the last two issues of Action Comics are Krypto and Mon-El. When did Krypto arrive in Clark's life? Did Mon-El make an appearance? That said, I did like the distinctly science fiction Golden Age look of Krypton; I've never, ever like the "cold Krypton" of Byrne, so keeping this version of Krypton in place is a vast improvement.

The best feature of the 1986 revamp of Superman—and maybe about the only thing I really liked—was the survival of the Kents. So the fact that I saw no evidence they survived into Clark's adulthood (and apparently, they didn't) is a downer. And I miss seeing a certain teenage boy clad in a black T-shirt and jeans. Really, really, really, miss The Kid, much as I love Jon. I have high hopes Superboy II WILL come back to us.

And the best feature of the 2011 revamp was Grant Morrison's wonderful take on Superman. I wish we'd seen more evidence of his story here; I may have missed something, but I didn't see much.

That's my take, anyway.

I agree with a lot of this.

The Legion connections, I think, will be established down the line as we get closer to the Legion's actual return. That particular Rebirth development is still on the back burner, so I never expected Reborn to dig into it. Within a year, when Rebirth is over, the Legion should be back and Clark's connection to them (whatever it happens to be) will be fleshed out. And that'll establish the nature of Clark's time as Superboy or lack thereof. Myself, Im expecting "urban myth" Superboy and not the fully public version from the Silver Age. And personally, I prefer it that way. I want those adventures (or something like them) in the history but I also want Superman's debut to be a major, world-changing deal, not just the "graduation" of a young hero.

The lack of Conner is....perplexing. They either plan on dumping the entire generation (except perhaps Tim, though I wont rule out a noble death) or they have plans to relaunch Young Justice (and its characters) after Rebirth and/or to coincide with the new season.

Dont agree with the Kents; they're better off dead.

As for the Morrison/New52 stuff, I dont read Action (not even for a continuity cliff-notes) but word is New52 stories and elements are in there somewhere. I guess most of the stories happened (after a fashion) up until Truth. But Im not sure how it all played out or how much really did happen.

[BrianWilly]

I think this new origin is pretty pat and neat and covers all its bases and answers all the questions...but I'm still honestly a little sad that we lost the great Convergence/Lois &Clark angle of him and Lois being survivors of a different world. It's easy to forget how unique a storyline that was at the time. I read an article recently talking about how it revitalized Superman's status as an immigrant-slash-refugee trying to make his way in America, and I think that's a pretty apt descriptor; it was just a really interesting way to make the most well-off and powerful superhero of all time, and her husband , feel like bona fide underdogs again.

With this new continuity...those events still sort of happened, but kind of in a more prosaic, neutered way. I'll get over it at some point, but the fact is that we lost something really cool even as we gained something else.

[Sacred Knight]

I couldn't be more happy its gone. I don't even consider it that unique, DC has done alternate universe characters in the main world before. I get the synergy with his original immigrant roots but it was far from enticing enough a symbolism to make worth it the effort and worth screwing literally everything else in the mythos up. It's mashed together alternate universe Marvel crap, and its screwed up their line to high heaven. I would have been horrified to see that happen to Superman in the long run. The very concept made Action nearly unreadable till Reborn since that was the title that had to deal with it. Hitch tried to utilize it in JL too, and that was equally uninteresting.

[manofsteel1979]

So...I logged into Comicvine, made a civil post on the copied thread that it was indeed copied and just nicely asked them in the future just credit the original poster and provide the original link...and they had the Mod delete said post and promptly ban me.

So...yeah. Not cool. Oh well. Whatever.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

So...I logged into Comicvine, made a civil post on the copied thread that it was indeed copied and just nicely asked them in the future just credit the original poster and provide the original link...and they had the Mod delete said post and promptly ban me.

So...yeah. Not cool. Oh well. Whatever.

Comicvine is pretty toxic. The best thing I can say about it is that it isn't 4chan or Reddit.

There have been cases where people were banned from the forums for simply talking about how much they like the new Thor. So yeah, pretty bad.

[Adekis]

At least you've got the moral high ground, manofsteel1979 :P

As for my feelings on Action # 978 and the new origin...

Look, I've made my love for the New 52 Superman and Morrison's run in particular pretty clear. Morrison's run allowed for pretending that a whole lot of pre-Crisis stuff happened off panel more or less unchanged. We just had to imagine the new action suits of the t-shirt and the Lee armor in place of the trunks and such, but the details of the story would stay mostly the same. You could read a comic from the forties or seventies and pretty much slot it into that Superman timeline.

Now honestly, the Silver and Bronze ages are literally awesome, but the timeline with Jon was never going to support (for example) an unmarried Superman meeting Kara Zor-El for the first time. The fact that we must imagine the vast majority of Superman stories happening in an unknown, altered form because Jon's running around in them reminds me of how the 2011 reboot treated the Death of Superman (poorly) only even worse, because instead of changing one highly publicized story, we've now changed everything else and kept that one mostly the same. An "Ultimate Superman" timeline that revolves around Jon is never going to allow for the vast majority of Superman stories to be read at face value, because in the vast majority of Superman stories, Lois and Clark had no children. In more than half, they're unmarried. I knew those numbers going in. I never thought that the pre-Crisis and post-Flashpoint Supermen were going to really get a fair shake, so I'm not that disappointed. I had low expectations.

Still, part of me really hoped that the blue jeans and t-shirts would stick around. They don't require much time in the backstory. Maybe a single year, even just six months would be enough to fit in a Golden Age-esque period in Superman's life. I didn't even think there was a good chance we'd see them again, I just hoped we'd get the space between panels where they could have happened. Unfortunately, the painfully Donner-derived scene where Kal catches a screaming Lois (I hate that) and then a helicopter in a highly public "first appearance" already wearing full trunks and looking like he's thirty pretty much tosses out even the possibility of the implication of a Golden Age inspired period in this timeline.

Then, as if to rub salt in the wound, Superman wears the Jim Lee armor - after he's married, and fights Ulysses and the Oracle from Krypton Returns after Rebirth. Considering that not a single post-Flashpoint story had Lois and Clark married, this means that the only real overt reference to the post-Flashpoint Superman winds up totally and necessarily divorced from its original context. We get to keep flippin' Krypton Man and the Electric Blue Superman, but we only get the less interesting New 52 stories explicitly referenced, and like most of the Silver/Bronze age stuff we're still forced to mentally rewrite them in light of Jon! Even the action of the Kents' statues getting smashed symbolically tears down the strengths of the New 52 Superman. I had a hard time not reading large swaths of this issue as a giant middle finger!

So yeah, I'm not thrilled.

I'm trying to stay positive though. I might be confused as to how Eradicator could ever consider Henshaw an "old friend" despite helping Kal kill him in a comic we saw visually referenced right in the very same issue, but I'm liking Henshaw back again as a mastermind with a revenge plot. I might not like how badly Jon messes up the timeline, but I like him as a character enough, so I'm not worried. I might not like Lara's blonde hair, but I like that Jor's wearing green and looks like his son. Kal's costume looks fantastic- possibly better than it ever has. They should've used a look like this back in 2011! And there's no reason that a messed up timeline has to hurt my enjoyment of plain-old Superman action that's sure to come with the new Revenge Squad. That's my final answer, in the end. Sure, I'm bothered by the book's backstory, but the background isn't what's important. What's important is "Next: Recruiting Mongul!" I've got no reason not to be excited about that. The past is the past. I care more about the future at this point.

[victorsage]

It's not perfect but I definitely prefer it to New 52.

Basically. I'd rather just have Post Crisis Superman with Lois and Jonathan. This is a compromise though, it is what it is.

I don't hate it, and now I'm just hoping the stories improve now that the New 52 is mostly gone.

[adrikito]

So...I logged into Comicvine, made a civil post on the copied thread that it was indeed copied and just nicely asked them in the future just credit the original poster and provide the original link...and they had the Mod delete said post and promptly ban me.

So...yeah. Not cool. Oh well. Whatever.

.... bad luck.. I was user of comicvine and I prefer this place..

I am not banned but.. There are some users that.. I prefer not know about them again..

I left this part of the forum for a long time.. for not win enemies for a foolishness and leave this place..

Clementine is right.. I am not surprised..

[Miles To Go]

I couldn't be more happy its gone. I don't even consider it that unique, DC has done alternate universe characters in the main world before. I get the synergy with his original immigrant roots but it was far from enticing enough a symbolism to make worth it the effort and worth screwing literally everything else in the mythos up. It's mashed together alternate universe Marvel crap, and its screwed up their line to high heaven. I would have been horrified to see that happen to Superman in the long run. The very concept made Action nearly unreadable till Reborn since that was the title that had to deal with it. Hitch tried to utilize it in JL too, and that was equally uninteresting.

I thought AC had become pretty compelling because of it...and it's a shame some of the ideas were never quite realized for it, since Superwoman hinted there was an in-universe reason nobody could tell the difference between the two versions of Lois. There was good synergy back then, where as now while the synergy is a bit less complicated, it takes some readjusting.

I don't mind readjusting, but I did like where the stories were going in AC and JL with the canon immigrant material. I wanted Supes ultimately proving himself to Batman and the suspicious members of the league.

[Kuwagaton]

I couldn't be more happy its gone.

I remember that was like your one and only request. I knew it would happen and it's for the best. But since you mention it, as a lifelong X-Men reader I could take it in stride haha.

they had the Mod delete said post and promptly ban me.

That's like an absurdly hilarious scene from a movie.

Morrison's run allowed for pretending that a whole lot of pre-Crisis stuff happened off panel more or less unchanged.

Interesting. I always imagined New 52 Superman as the pre flashpoint Superman with the pre crisis parts of him removed. Growing up, for better or worse with his popularity, Superman was just one guy to me. New 52 Superman felt like a more clear change, and he reminded me more of Sonic the hedgehog than the old guy. And that's not a knock because I also grew up on Sonic.

I think everything since 1971 can fit into this new timeline, but I can't particularly say New 52 got the best shake.

[Last Son of Krypton]

So...I logged into Comicvine, made a civil post on the copied thread that it was indeed copied and just nicely asked them in the future just credit the original poster and provide the original link...and they had the Mod delete said post and promptly ban me.

So...yeah. Not cool. Oh well. Whatever.

Ha, you've experienced what it's like to end up in Bizarro world.

[Netherman14]

At least you've got the moral high ground, manofsteel1979 :P

As for my feelings on Action # 978 and the new origin...

Look, I've made my love for the New 52 Superman and Morrison's run in particular pretty clear. Morrison's run allowed for pretending that a whole lot of pre-Crisis stuff happened off panel more or less unchanged. We just had to imagine the new action suits of the t-shirt and the Lee armor in place of the trunks and such, but the details of the story would stay mostly the same. You could read a comic from the forties or seventies and pretty much slot it into that Superman timeline.

Now honestly, the Silver and Bronze ages are literally awesome, but the timeline with Jon was never going to support (for example) an unmarried Superman meeting Kara Zor-El for the first time. The fact that we must imagine the vast majority of Superman stories happening in an unknown, altered form because Jon's running around in them reminds me of how the 2011 reboot treated the Death of Superman (poorly) only even worse, because instead of changing one highly publicized story, we've now changed everything else and kept that one mostly the same. An "Ultimate Superman" timeline that revolves around Jon is never going to allow for the vast majority of Superman stories to be read at face value, because in the vast majority of Superman stories, Lois and Clark had no children. In more than half, they're unmarried. I knew those numbers going in. I never thought that the pre-Crisis and post-Flashpoint Supermen were going to really get a fair shake, so I'm not that disappointed. I had low expectations.

Still, part of me really hoped that the blue jeans and t-shirts would stick around. They don't require much time in the backstory. Maybe a single year, even just six months would be enough to fit in a Golden Age-esque period in Superman's life. I didn't even think there was a good chance we'd see them again, I just hoped we'd get the space between panels where they could have happened. Unfortunately, the painfully Donner-derived scene where Kal catches a screaming Lois (I hate that) and then a helicopter in a highly public "first appearance" already wearing full trunks and looking like he's thirty pretty much tosses out even the possibility of the implication of a Golden Age inspired period in this timeline.

Then, as if to rub salt in the wound, Superman wears the Jim Lee armor - after he's married, and fights Ulysses and the Oracle from Krypton Returns after Rebirth. Considering that not a single post-Flashpoint story had Lois and Clark married, this means that the only real overt reference to the post-Flashpoint Superman winds up totally and necessarily divorced from its original context. We get to keep flippin' Krypton Man and the Electric Blue Superman, but we only get the less interesting New 52 stories explicitly referenced, and like most of the Silver/Bronze age stuff we're still forced to mentally rewrite them in light of Jon! Even the action of the Kents' statues getting smashed symbolically tears down the strengths of the New 52 Superman. I had a hard time not reading large swaths of this issue as a giant middle finger!

So yeah, I'm not thrilled.

I'm trying to stay positive though. I might be confused as to how Eradicator could ever consider Henshaw an "old friend" despite helping Kal kill him in a comic we saw visually referenced right in the very same issue, but I'm liking Henshaw back again as a mastermind with a revenge plot. I might not like how badly Jon messes up the timeline, but I like him as a character enough, so I'm not worried. I might not like Lara's blonde hair, but I like that Jor's wearing green and looks like his son. Kal's costume looks fantastic- possibly better than it ever has. They should've used a look like this back in 2011! And there's no reason that a messed up timeline has to hurt my enjoyment of plain-old Superman action that's sure to come with the new Revenge Squad. That's my final answer, in the end. Sure, I'm bothered by the book's backstory, but the background isn't what's important. What's important is "Next: Recruiting Mongul!" I've got no reason not to be excited about that. The past is the past. I care more about the future at this point.

Quoted for truth, this is not a merger. this is simply Post-Crisis Superman.

[superduperman]

So...I logged into Comicvine, made a civil post on the copied thread that it was indeed copied and just nicely asked them in the future just credit the original poster and provide the original link...and they had the Mod delete said post and promptly ban me.

So...yeah. Not cool. Oh well. Whatever.

"How dare you remind us that we're stealing stuff!"

[ironman2978]

Honestly, it is pretty stand up as a reconciliation of all his history. My only complaint is that there is too much of Geoff Johns Secret Origins used. That was honestly one of the worst origins too much for me because it was a poor mesh of the previous Superman history with Richard Donner/Christopher Reeve Superman and Silver/Bronze Age elements used.


I'd have much rather they'd use Birthright, or American Alien or Grant Morrison's New 52 origin. Or even combined more elements in the origins instead of just using mostly Geoff Johns origin elements. Honestly, there was no truly seamless way to tie in all elements and make everyone happy. At this point, now they established that Superman is more of an amalgamation of post crisis Superman with Secret Origins and his New 52 and Pre-Flashpoint elements.


Hopefully this Ultimate Superman is fleshed out more.

[Sacred Knight]

So...I logged into Comicvine, made a civil post on the copied thread that it was indeed copied and just nicely asked them in the future just credit the original poster and provide the original link...and they had the Mod delete said post and promptly ban me.

So...yeah. Not cool. Oh well. Whatever.

That place is full of major tools and losers. They take pride in belittling and running people off the forum as some form of wang size barometer.