Seven Soldiers of Victory

[Starchild]

K, but he didn't. "weird" is a totally subjective word. Try using actual criticism, as that's an empty and meaningless statement.

I don't really like explaining myself. It leads to arguments, people don't respect opinions anymore. So I keep it short and sweet, then I move on. Nothing personal. I learned my lesson last time on a comic site.

[t hedge coke]

I love how Misty's apprenticeship plays out, compared to the introductory lessons in Promethea.

Promethea features of a scary, misogynistic old man disguising himself as a handsome youth to seduce then terrify two teenage girls, then when the heroine gets the better of him, he offers to teach her things, but only if she'll prostitute her higher self to him, because, and he flat out tells her, her higher self is smarter and better looking than she is. He spins this as an Innana/you must get naked to walk through Hell thing.

Seven Soldiers simply has a teenage girl ask the already very open and earnest Zatanna if she can teach her some things, and Z says she's a bit of a mess, but she gives it a shot, anyway, and just tries to help the kid out.

One of those is incredibly self-serving and douchey on the teacher's part. The other is just nice.

[Carabas]

I don't really like explaining myself. It leads to arguments, people don't respect opinions anymore.

Why would we respect opinions that are factually wrong and/or that the holder of refuses to even try to back up?

[Dispenser Of Truth]

I don't really like explaining myself.

Then why does anyone here have any reason to lend weight to what you have to say? I know you said you just wanted to throw your opinion out there, but if you're not willing to do even the minimum work to back it up--not even the most basic examples or broadest generalizations--why does anyone have any reason to see it as anything other than ephemeral, and therefore having no effect being out there in the first place?

Anyway, Seven Soldiers was the shit. Top 10 Superhero comics ever for me, easily.

[Sandy Hausler]

It was a very good read, but I can't say I side with everyone who I think are overselling it a bit (as a rating, I'd probably give it an 8/10).

It introduced me to a lot of great characters, and made me love Zatanna even more. There were lots of really interesting insular stories and also the big overarcing plot is genius and executed brilliantly. However I can't say I have a love for all of it. One or two of the characters just simply aren't to my taste, and at times it can be a bit too experimental, too over-complicated.

From a technical perspective I can't fault it, but from an entertainment perspective, it's missing that special spark. I need to give it another read, but I just don't have motivation to endure it all again.

I tend to agree. Some of the minis, in my opinion, fell flat (Guardian, Mister Miracle), though even in those minis, there were points of interest; others I really liked (Bulleteer, Frankenstein). I know a lot of people swear by it, but I never thought it was better than OK.

Sandy Hausler

[Sandy Hausler]

Could you imagine if we'd gotten a Zatanna ongoing written by Morrison..?

Oh, yuck. I love Zatanna, but I don't think that a Morrison book featuring her would be doing the character any favors. But I'm not a big fan of his recent work (but his Animal Man and Doom Patrol -- a totally different story).

Sandy Hausler

[Captain Haddock]

Definitely my favourite Morrison work and arguably some of the best he's ever done. To get the stories that fit together so neatly, set each other up and play off each other but ALSO stand perfectly well alone is just fantastic. It also doesn't fall into what I see the typical Morrison failing of playing up subtext at the expense of the actual text itself - there is some pretty meta stuff in there but if you miss out on that, you're not going to come away completely baffled as to what the point of the story actually was. The artists were all brilliant too, whoever matched each to their respective character/story deserves a prize.

[HsssH]

A couple of months ago I read this and Final Crisis in one go (well not in one day but you get the idea) and it was glorious. Thou I can understand how someone wouldn't like it, its not standard and even after a couple of rereads it leaves some things rather open.

Oh, yuck. I love Zatanna, but I don't think that a Morrison book featuring her would be doing the character any favors.

For each his own but for me that was definitive Zatanna.

[Jeff Brady]

I don't really like explaining myself. It leads to arguments, people don't respect opinions anymore. So I keep it short and sweet, then I move on. Nothing personal. I learned my lesson last time on a comic site.

You have negated the entire function of a discussion thread.

Opinions aren't inherently due any respect. This is not a new thing.

And to be on topic, I have thoroughly enjoyed 7S. All of the art is immersive & stylistic. The Bulletteer's art isn't exactly my cuppa (not bad, just too much cheesecake), but the story is great.

[t hedge coke]

The thing, for me, is how packed it is with utterly sad moments, without ever being a downer comic. Mo Colley's only on-panel for like two pages, but his death is the saddest %(&%ing thing in the world. Or, when Boss Dark Side picks up the adult diapers that Mr. Miracle is reaching for and then sets them on a higher shelf before walking away. Sally Sonic's first forty or sixty years and the whole "immortal super teen" porno industry. The fact nobody has any empathy for Gimmix ever, and she is a total diva, but she's still badass superhero when the world needs one. For every harrowing, horrible thing, there's this surge of awesomeness and goodness. As soon as we know no one who isn't "pure of heart" can't pull out Excalibur, we see "pure of heart' skewed when Helligan unsheathes it. Don Vincenzo's a very bad man, but he goes out like a mensch. Klarion totally rolling his eyes when the Submissionary tries to explain to him the burdens of his job, or after his mom tries to set him on fire. The shrinking gal's total shrug it off positivity about her work in super-porn.

The best stuff in 7S, for me, is how often people encounter tragedy and walk it off, how frequently the characters don't let bad things turn them into jerks. Even Klarion, who's more than a little selfish and nutty, isn't above helping people out. Zatanna, Craft, Helligan, Guardian, Lil Hollywood... they never stop being decent to people, in a way that most superheroes from DC at that time weren't going to uphold. They may lose their temper, or get depressed, but they were never jerks just to be jerks, to pump up an ego (like Sally Sonic) or vent frustrations (like rape-happy humiliation machine, former-King Melmoth).

[HsssH]

Well thats Morrison for you, most of his work is full of sad moments but in the end everything works out because it has to.

[RBerman]

Thread resurrection! I couldn't find another more apropos thread. I was reading through Seven Soldiers: Klarion #3 and noticed that the Deviant Ones kids seemed to match up to the Archies. blonde girl, black haired girl, hulking guy with "M" medallion (Moose), guy with crown. Teekl is ginger (Archie) and I suppose Klarion would be Reggie. Has anybody seen this discussed elsewhere?

[Jody Garland]

I remember reading that on Scans Daily or Barbelith way back in the day, yeah. I could never really make sense of the why, though, unless it's supposed to be a simple 'Archie characters get corrupted' story like the old Goodman Beaver Goes Playboy.

That same issue has some other weird comic cameos. Fatman the Human Flying Saucer is in the super vehicle museum!

[RBerman]

I remember reading that on Scans Daily or Barbelith way back in the day, yeah. I could never really make sense of the why, though, unless it's supposed to be a simple 'Archie characters get corrupted' story like the old Goodman Beaver Goes Playboy.

That same issue has some other weird comic cameos. Fatman the Human Flying Saucer is in the super vehicle museum!

I will check out Fatman; thanks for that. As far as the Archies, it's probably the same as making the Stepford Cuckoos (from New X-Men) and the female Blackhawks (from Multiversity) both map to the Spice Girls. Just a little inside joke to amuse the creators.