View Poll Results: Do you consider Stephanie Brown to be a true Robin?

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  • Yes, her time in the tights makes her as much of a Robin as the rest of the boys!

    80 50.31%
  • No, she was not defined by the mantle as were the other Robins.

    79 49.69%
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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    So the "No" argument is basically "she was never intended to be Robin long-term, therefore she's not"? Do I have that right? Because that's prioritizing the metatextual circumstances rather than the in-story ones, and I can't get on board with that. She served as Robin, therefore she's a Robin. It's really that simple.

    To use a parallel, imagine saying that an Army private who got killed on their very first mission "wasn't really a soldier."
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  2. #17
    Astonishing Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    sure technically, but if they made a book about the history of the Robin mantel, I imagine Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian would get their own chapters. Carrie Kelly might get a page or two. And poor Steph would get a small paragraph or even just a footnote. :P

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishyZombie View Post
    sure technically, but if they made a book about the history of the Robin mantel, I imagine Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian would get their own chapters. Carrie Kelly might get a page or two. And poor Steph would get a small paragraph or even just a footnote. :P
    That's just because DC themselves don't want to acknowledge her time as Robin. Its got nothing to do with the merit of her time.

    I like to imagine Editorial lost their s**t when the reference to her time as Robin was slipped into Leviathan Strikes. XD

  4. #19
    Incredible Member RedQueen's Avatar
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    Yeah...but I don't classify her as one of the good Robins. Stephanie's time as Robin is marred by Batman's intentions and her certain choices. Bruce didn't really give a crap about her and Stephanie made certain choices and it blew up in their faces. It's not the most fun Batman and Robin dynamic and it's probably the most unejoyable one so I sort of understand why people don't count it. To me she still counts, but I won't go out of my way to read her tiny tenure because it wasn't enjoyable. Carrie Kelley is someone I enjoy reading especially in DKR III.

  5. #20
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishyZombie View Post
    sure technically, but if they made a book about the history of the Robin mantel, I imagine Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian would get their own chapters. Carrie Kelly might get a page or two. And poor Steph would get a small paragraph or even just a footnote. :P
    EXCEPT! They did make a book about the history of the Robin mantel. And both Steph and Carrie got a full issue - 22 pages each!

    Robin, The Boy Wonder - A Celebration of 75 Years-005.jpg

    Robin, The Boy Wonder - A Celebration of 75 Years-383.jpg

    Steph has more history as Robin than Carrie, but unfortunately isn't attached to something as weighty as TDKR. Though I'd like to see Carrie try to take Steph's Batgirl mantle in fandom's eyes.

    I'm also working on my own response, like unclepulky, but had to include this.
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  6. #21
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedQueen View Post
    Yeah...but I don't classify her as one of the good Robins. Stephanie's time as Robin is marred by Batman's intentions and her certain choices. Bruce didn't really give a crap about her and Stephanie made certain choices and it blew up in their faces. It's not the most fun Batman and Robin dynamic and it's probably the most unejoyable one so I sort of understand why people don't count it. To me she still counts, but I won't go out of my way to read her tiny tenure because it wasn't enjoyable. Carrie Kelley is someone I enjoy reading especially in DKR III.
    Bruce treated her deliberately unfairly. That's not at all the same as Bruce didn't care about her: Detective Comics 796 (19).jpg

    And the already posted "death" scene.

    I agree that it's an unhealthy narrative, but I love it dearly.
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  7. #22
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Yes, she absolutely was a Robin.
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  8. #23
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

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  9. #24
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    I voted no. To me Steph's character is defined by her time as Batgirl. That was where she really came into her own and I more often think of her as "Batgirl" or "Spoiler" then I think of her as "Robin". I do think she would have been a good Robin if the whole thing hadn't been yet another editorially manadated mess. I actually was interested in seeing them really push a female character in the iconic role in continuity and had hoped they were planning to take it seriously back at the time. Sadly it was one of many wasted opportunities DC has had over the years.
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  10. #25
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    I vote no.

    Honestly, she didn't wear the suit long enough or do enough. She was robin from issue 126-128 and was fired. Tim Drake has worn a Batman suit that often, as has Alfred, and we don't consider him a Batman... Bruce has disguised himself as Superman... but he's not really superman.

    Plot wise is the biggest issue for me though. That was during the time that Tim tried to retire for some reason or other... and Batman tried to force him back in the cape. He outed his identity to spoiler and when that didn't do it he put her in the Robin suit. One of the defining traits of Steph (at the time) was that she tried really, REALLY hard, but wasn't up to 'bat-family' standards. Tim and Bruce both were constantly trying to get her to retire and treating her like a rookie... After everything that Tim had to go through to get the costume... I just don't buy Bruce just handing it to her at the drop of a hat. It backtracked everything he'd said from the beginning.

    Even SHE believed that it was all just a ploy to get Tim back. Bruce comforted her on her deathbed... but Bruce is a notorious liar... and while this during 'bat-jerk' era even he's not a big enough jerk to tell the dying girl 'yep... you sucked. It was all a game, Sorry it got you killed...' of COURSE he's going to tell her it meant something. Doesn't really make it true.

    But for me it's all about the time frame. If she'd had the job for a year or even multiple stories and what not... then maybe. but 3 issues and then she was killed in her spoiler costume, I just don't see that as a legitimate Robin-hood. YMMV, but I don't see it.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    EXCEPT! They did make a book about the history of the Robin mantel. And both Steph and Carrie got a full issue - 22 pages each!

    Robin, The Boy Wonder - A Celebration of 75 Years-005.jpg

    Robin, The Boy Wonder - A Celebration of 75 Years-383.jpg

    Steph has more history as Robin than Carrie, but unfortunately isn't attached to something as weighty as TDKR. Though I'd like to see Carrie try to take Steph's Batgirl mantle in fandom's eyes.

    I'm also working on my own response, like unclepulky, but had to include this.
    if that's the case, I'd argue those were very generous inclusions on their part, considering the other parties present. Also telling that they were under "other Robins" so, they weren't on the same level as the big 4.

  12. #27
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    I don't really care either way, but her time as Robin was such a blip.

  13. #28
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    I recall a scene in Batman Incorporated where Steph says she was Robin for, in her own words, "like 5 minutes". This sums up my thoughts on the matter.

    Look, I love Steph. She's probably my favorite Batgirl and I really enjoy her character in the 90s as well. But I just don't think her time as Robin was official or impactful enough to count. She was a great original character and a great Batgirl. But as a Robin, I think she has as much merit as the Joker.

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  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedQueen View Post
    Bruce didn't really give a crap about her and Stephanie made certain choices and it blew up in their faces.
    I'm not sure "Bruce didn't really give a crap about her" is true at all.

    And Jason Todd made "certain choices" that blew up in people's faces in ways that reverberate even to this very day.

    But I would have to say that, from the point of view of TPTB, Stephanie is not "really a Robin," nor even very important. I mean, look at Bruce in Batman Beyond #7 ruminating on his career as Batman: "Alone at first. Help came later. Dick. Jason. Tim. Of Course, Damian. For a while, Duke...."

    Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain don't even qualify as "help." But Duke, who is a much newer character (and has never been a Robin, if you think that's Batman's criterion), gets included in the list (and the drawing),

    One could come up with all kinds of reasons for this. "Well, in the vaguely variant BB continuity, Duke for some reason shows up but Steph and Cassie don't." "Steph never lived in the mansion, and Cass can't be called 'help' because she's a better fighter than Batman - he's her help!"

    And you can do it all without ever mentioning that they listed five male characters, including one comparative newbie, and left out the two female characters who it would make complete sense to include, as if they didn't exist. If you want to do that.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    I'm not sure "Bruce didn't really give a crap about her" is true at all.

    And Jason Todd made "certain choices" that blew up in people's faces in ways that reverberate even to this very day.

    But I would have to say that, from the point of view of TPTB, Stephanie is not "really a Robin," nor even very important. I mean, look at Bruce in Batman Beyond #7 ruminating on his career as Batman: "Alone at first. Help came later. Dick. Jason. Tim. Of Course, Damian. For a while, Duke...."

    Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain don't even qualify as "help." But Duke, who is a much newer character (and has never been a Robin, if you think that's Batman's criterion), gets included in the list (and the drawing),

    One could come up with all kinds of reasons for this. "Well, in the vaguely variant BB continuity, Duke for some reason shows up but Steph and Cassie don't." "Steph never lived in the mansion, and Cass can't be called 'help' because she's a better fighter than Batman - he's her help!"

    And you can do it all without ever mentioning that they listed five male characters, including one comparative newbie, and left out the two female characters who it would make complete sense to include, as if they didn't exist. If you want to do that.
    When he was Robin? What were those?

    I`m amazed the current Beyond awknowledges both Jason and Tim separately considering how in the toon, that Robin was Jason with Tim`s name.

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