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  1. #1
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    Default Why Doesn't Batman Kill?

    So I am new to the comics as some of you might have seen me comment on. At present my source of Batman characterization are various movies and cartoons.

    Needless to say, they paint a somewhat contradictory picture of our hero. I'm sure the same is no less true in comics, of course. Decades of characterization with dozens of writers, you're bound to get some inconsistency.

    But even still, is there any consistency to why Batman has his no kill rule? In terms of films, The Dark Knight presents it as a sign of nobility. Batman doesn't kill because he's just that much of a paragon. Meanwhile, Under the Red Hood offers a far more compelling reason. Batman refuses to kill because if he slips, if he crosses that line, he'll become everything he fights against.

    So, which is it according to the comics? Does he refuse to kill as a sign of what an amazing hero he is, or to show how incredibly screwed up he is?

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK1988 View Post
    In terms of films, The Dark Knight presents it as a sign of nobility. Batman doesn't kill because he's just that much of a paragon. Meanwhile, Under the Red Hood offers a far more compelling reason. Batman refuses to kill because if he slips, if he crosses that line, he'll become everything he fights against.
    It's both of those.
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  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Batman just catches the criminals. It isn't his job to kill them. The real question should be why does the state that Gotham City is in have no death penalty? Is there anyone left that thinks the Joker can be rehabilitated?

  4. #4

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    Because Batman is first and foremost a Detective in the same cloth as Sherlock and his best stories follow that path, the only real great story that kind of deviated from that was TDKR which had the luxury of not having to adhere to the Ouroboros.

  5. #5
    Spectacular Member Fearless Heart's Avatar
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    It's both. Batman lives with so much self-control in such darkness. If he allows himself to kill, he might start rationalizing other killings. It would be interesting what would happen if Bruce Wayne went to war after being Batman for years, and then came back. I'd be interest in how he'd operate. Or maybe he'd refuse to be Batman.

  6. #6
    'Sup Choom? Handsome men don't lose fights's Avatar
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    Why should he have to stain his hands with someone's blood? The death penalty is a proven failure as a crime preventative, so even if Batman were to kill, it would make no difference. He might as well choose the least damaging option.
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  7. #7
    Astonishing Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    I think his first experience witnessing death and murder, was just so traumatizing for him, he simply refuses to go there.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post
    Why should he have to stain his hands with someone's blood? The death penalty is a proven failure as a crime preventative, so even if Batman were to kill, it would make no difference. He might as well choose the least damaging option.
    Some how, I don't think the friends and families of Joker's victims see it as the least damaging option.

  9. #9
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Batman just catches the criminals. It isn't his job to kill them. The real question should be why does the state that Gotham City is in have no death penalty? Is there anyone left that thinks the Joker can be rehabilitated?
    Even if Gotham had the death penalty, Joker, for example, couldn't receive it by achieving successful insanity defenses (whether the court found correctly or not is a separate discussion). So, there are two legal barriers keeping many rogues from the chair, no death penalty and a pro-defendant legal framework for insanity defenses.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 05-05-2017 at 08:04 AM.
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  10. #10
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkseidpwns View Post
    Then there would no longer be villains, the franchise would tank.
    Succinctly and well put.

    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    Even if Gotham had the death penalty, Joker, for example, couldn't receive it by achieving successful insanity defenses (whether the court found correctly or not is a separate discussion). So, there are two legal barriers keeping many rogues from the chair, no death penalty and a pro-defendant legal framework for insanity defenses.
    That's not the real problem. The real problem is: why hasn't some cop shot the freaking Joker and killed him? It's the one weak spot of Soft Targets - Maggie unloads a full clip into the Joker, but doesn't kill him. It stretches the out of universe demand for the Joker to implausible breaking point that a cop hasn't just killed him. I cannot image an IA board in the world that wouldn't pat a cop that killed the Joker on the back.
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  11. #11
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    That's not the real problem. The real problem is: why hasn't some cop shot the freaking Joker and killed him? It's the one weak spot of Soft Targets - Maggie unloads a full clip into the Joker, but doesn't kill him. It stretches the out of universe demand for the Joker to implausible breaking point that a cop hasn't just killed him. I cannot image an IA board in the world that wouldn't pat a cop that killed the Joker on the back.
    He's survived exploding buildings, falling into smokestacks, falling off of cliffs, falling from absurd heights, and other scenario's where it's implausible he could have possibly survived.

    I can believe the likelihood that the GCPD have shot the Joker multiple times and he's still found a way to survive. It's just what he does. Maybe that's the joke ?

  12. #12
    BANNED Starter Set's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    That's not the real problem. The real problem is: why hasn't some cop shot the freaking Joker and killed him?
    Too busy shooting at unarmed young black men?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    It's both of those.
    Honestly I've always hated that second one. Other explanations for it work fine, but that one is just bullcrap.

  14. #14
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK1988 View Post
    So I am new to the comics as some of you might have seen me comment on. At present my source of Batman characterization are various movies and cartoons.

    Needless to say, they paint a somewhat contradictory picture of our hero. I'm sure the same is no less true in comics, of course. Decades of characterization with dozens of writers, you're bound to get some inconsistency.

    But even still, is there any consistency to why Batman has his no kill rule? In terms of films, The Dark Knight presents it as a sign of nobility. Batman doesn't kill because he's just that much of a paragon. Meanwhile, Under the Red Hood offers a far more compelling reason. Batman refuses to kill because if he slips, if he crosses that line, he'll become everything he fights against.

    So, which is it according to the comics? Does he refuse to kill as a sign of what an amazing hero he is, or to show how incredibly screwed up he is?
    Because it's REALLY not easy to come up with popular and memorable villians every single month.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Out of universe: because coming up with villains is hard, and usually unsuccessful. So keeping villains alive means you can keep the stories going and profitable.

    In universe: it completely depends on the writer. The one I buy the most is because if he kills, Gordon has no excuse anymore to turn a blind eye to him.
    Gordon doesn’t have an excuse to turning a blind eye to anything Bruce does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    Factor in the very specific symbol he tries to be to Gotham and how that'd compromise it.
    This crap about Bruce being a symbol is more often writer fanboyism running wild. Kind of like Superman being treated as more special than even other capes just because of his longevity as a fictional character. All this does is make Bruce seem not only psychologically and morally fragile, but also skews his priorities to the point he's pretty much fine with the knowledge that innocents will die, so long as he still gets to ride his arbitrary high horse. Is it for their sake that he goes out every night, or his own?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    and that it's the legal systems' job to determine punishment, not his.
    If Bruce cared one iota about what the legal system was he’d be wearing a badge not a mask. The no kill rule is just lip service paid to the idea of respect for the law while violating it in numerous other, more questionable ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    and also that you'd lose a ton of great villains.
    I find recurring villains overrated for the most part but can deal with it. However, not writing these characters as having committed worse atrocities than most real world war criminals would help suspend disbelief that they’re still walking God’s green Earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    and his underpinnings as a fictional character in the real world would rapidly fall apart.
    Like how it’s fallen apart every time this rule has been broken, especially in the movies?

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