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  1. #16
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Out of universe: because coming up with villains is hard, and usually unsuccessful. So keeping villains alive means you can keep the stories going and profitable.

    In universe: it completely depends on the writer. The one I buy the most is because if he kills, Gordon has no excuse anymore to turn a blind eye to him.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
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  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    You CAN´T be a hero and inspire people, if you do the same as the villains.
    Last edited by adrikito; 05-06-2017 at 03:57 AM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    Ignoring the real world reasons, I think this is the best option.

    The whole "I'd be no better than them" is a fine reason for him to not go on a Punisher style killing spree (because that is actually wrong), but it really doesn't cover the fact that he won't even kill to directly save lives - like police do.
    Really this is more of a reason for him to quit being Batman than anything else.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    Batman began as a vigilante who had no problem taking life and used guns
    Then they saw they could make more money casting him as a family friendly superhero and that's why he doesn't kill

  5. #20
    Spectacular Member btmarine23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Out of universe: because coming up with villains is hard, and usually unsuccessful. So keeping villains alive means you can keep the stories going and profitable.

    In universe: it completely depends on the writer. The one I buy the most is because if he kills, Gordon has no excuse anymore to turn a blind eye to him.
    So in stead we just kill Robins..we can find those anywhere apparently. Grr

  6. #21
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by btmarine23 View Post
    So in stead we just kill Robins..we can find those anywhere apparently. Grr
    Well, creating a villain who walks the fine line of being evil enough to provide a challenge for the heroes and not too evil that no one wants to write about him is the hard part. A Robin is, to some extent, "easier" to create.

    That being said: STOP KILLING ROBINS!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
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  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    Because he spent all of his being, billions of dollars and decades of his life fighting a war against an enemy that was defined above all else in his eyes by someone killing someone else. Batman shooting someone would be like Superman saving the day by blowing up someone's home planet. I don't think he needs his ethics to be rooted in the idea that he'd immediately just start killing everyone all the time if he 'crossed the line'; Batman doesn't kill because that's the literal opposite of what Batman does. Factor in the very specific symbol he tries to be to Gotham and how that'd compromise it, and that it's the legal systems' job to determine punishment, not his, and also that you'd lose a ton of great villains and his underpinnings as a fictional character in the real world would rapidly fall apart, and it works just fine for me.
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  8. #23
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    Because he spent all of his being, billions of dollars and decades of his life fighting a war against an enemy that was defined above all else in his eyes by someone killing someone else. Batman shooting someone would be like Superman saving the day by blowing up someone's home planet. I don't think he needs his ethics to be rooted in the idea that he'd immediately just start killing everyone all the time if he 'crossed the line'; Batman doesn't kill because that's the literal opposite of what Batman does. Factor in the very specific symbol he tries to be to Gotham and how that'd compromise it, and that it's the legal systems' job to determine punishment, not his, and also that you'd lose a ton of great villains and his underpinnings as a fictional character in the real world would rapidly fall apart, and it works just fine for me.
    That's definitely what Brubaker was going for.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
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  9. #24
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK1988 View Post
    So I am new to the comics as some of you might have seen me comment on. At present my source of Batman characterization are various movies and cartoons.

    Needless to say, they paint a somewhat contradictory picture of our hero. I'm sure the same is no less true in comics, of course. Decades of characterization with dozens of writers, you're bound to get some inconsistency.

    But even still, is there any consistency to why Batman has his no kill rule? In terms of films, The Dark Knight presents it as a sign of nobility. Batman doesn't kill because he's just that much of a paragon. Meanwhile, Under the Red Hood offers a far more compelling reason. Batman refuses to kill because if he slips, if he crosses that line, he'll become everything he fights against.

    So, which is it according to the comics? Does he refuse to kill as a sign of what an amazing hero he is, or to show how incredibly screwed up he is?
    Because it's REALLY not easy to come up with popular and memorable villians every single month.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Out of universe: because coming up with villains is hard, and usually unsuccessful. So keeping villains alive means you can keep the stories going and profitable.

    In universe: it completely depends on the writer. The one I buy the most is because if he kills, Gordon has no excuse anymore to turn a blind eye to him.
    Gordon doesn’t have an excuse to turning a blind eye to anything Bruce does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    Factor in the very specific symbol he tries to be to Gotham and how that'd compromise it.
    This crap about Bruce being a symbol is more often writer fanboyism running wild. Kind of like Superman being treated as more special than even other capes just because of his longevity as a fictional character. All this does is make Bruce seem not only psychologically and morally fragile, but also skews his priorities to the point he's pretty much fine with the knowledge that innocents will die, so long as he still gets to ride his arbitrary high horse. Is it for their sake that he goes out every night, or his own?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    and that it's the legal systems' job to determine punishment, not his.
    If Bruce cared one iota about what the legal system was he’d be wearing a badge not a mask. The no kill rule is just lip service paid to the idea of respect for the law while violating it in numerous other, more questionable ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    and also that you'd lose a ton of great villains.
    I find recurring villains overrated for the most part but can deal with it. However, not writing these characters as having committed worse atrocities than most real world war criminals would help suspend disbelief that they’re still walking God’s green Earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    and his underpinnings as a fictional character in the real world would rapidly fall apart.
    Like how it’s fallen apart every time this rule has been broken, especially in the movies?

  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragged Maw View Post
    Much more fun to maim criminals and leave them (further) unable to support themselves instead.
    Leading to these maimed criminals committing suicide or abandoning their kids resulting in even more orphans for Bruce Wayne to adopt and Batman to train as fodder.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Starter Set's Avatar
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    Very simple really. Ok, he kills the joker, penguin, scarecrow, Bane, all the zoo. And then what? We end the books? That would make no sens.

    The Batman franchise is such a success not only because of the Bat, but of course also because of its villains.

    But even if we keep it strictly to an "in universe" discussion and forget about all real life stuff, do you think Gordon, Supes and the rest of the Justice League would be cool with the B-man going on a rampage?

    Even if he keeps it to low life, red shirt, scum? That wouldn't go unnoticed.

  13. #28
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    You wonder if Bruce lies awake nights (or rather, mornings) thinking about all the innocent lives lost, maimed and wrecked because he chooses not to put the psychos from his rogue's gallery in the ground, thus preventing them from menacing Gotham's citizens?
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  14. #29
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    You wonder if Bruce lies awake nights (or rather, mornings) thinking about all the innocent lives lost, maimed and wrecked because he chooses not to put the psychos from his rogue's gallery in the ground, thus preventing them from menacing Gotham's citizens?
    I've always seen Bruce as a light sleeper anyways...

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Gordon doesn’t have an excuse to turning a blind eye to anything Bruce does.
    Yes he does. Pre-Batman, Gotham was such a corrupt shithole that it needed something as crazy as Batman to make it even somewhat salvageable. Nobody on the outside even remotely cared about it. Gordon already has doubts about trusting someone like Batman (at least in the early years), but he was desperate enough and cared enough about the innocent people of Gotham to give it a chance. There's nothing wrong with having a clear line he will not allow himself or Batman to cross in that scenario. It's not all or nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    This crap about Bruce being a symbol is more often writer fanboyism running wild. Kind of like Superman being treated as more special than even other capes just because of his longevity as a fictional character. All this does is make Bruce seem not only psychologically and morally fragile, but also skews his priorities to the point he's pretty much fine with the knowledge that innocents will die, so long as he still gets to ride his arbitrary high horse. Is it for their sake that he goes out every night, or his own?
    If you think Bruce doesn't care about innocents dying every time one of his rogues escapes, I don't think you understand the character all that much. He imposed limits upon himself because he doesn't trust himself to not fall over the edge if he kills the Joker, and then starts justifying an even higher body count. That doesn't mean that he doesn't get frustrated with the situations of the rogues escaping and knocking people off. Why the hell hasn't the Joker gotten the death sentence yet? Why hasn't Gordon taken the opportunity to shoot him in numerous justifiable situations? Why is it all his responsibility?

    Superman is more special than other capes due to his longevity. We wouldn't have the genre as we know it without him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If Bruce cared one iota about what the legal system was he’d be wearing a badge not a mask. The no kill rule is just lip service paid to the idea of respect for the law while violating it in numerous other, more questionable ways.
    I think the fact that Gotham had such a corrupt justice system kind of deterred him. Gotham already had some honest cops, and they were clearly overwhelmed and not getting the job done without some sort of outside help to give things a jump start like Batman. Harvey Dent was an idealistic hero and look at him, he went nuts. And I can't think of many other ways to violate the law that are more questionable than murdering people, and we know he doesn't rape, pillage and frame his enemies with reckless abandon.

    Should Dick, Babs, Kate, Tim, Steph and the rest all get over themselves and put on badges too, or is this just something we want Bruce to do? Clearly they don't care about the legal system. And none of them are gung ho about killing either.

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