Why Doesn't Batman Kill?

[darkseidpwns]

You single that out but not the guy who is defending torture?





You do not get to define what is and is not torture.

http://www.apt.ch/en/what-is-torture/

Some teenagers might beat each other silly but they are dumb kids who nobody cares about. Batman has significant influence and authority and is thus held to a higher standard than random kids.

There's no real way any of Batman's more framed methods of extracting info would ever fly in a real court room, I hope we all know that. I'm not here to tell you to stop enjoying the stories. But acknowledge it for what it is. It is absolutely torture.

When did I defend torture? can you even read? I was pointing out the hilarious strawmanning by that poster. His logic= Batman punches = torture so Batman might as well kill because he also violates privacy. Apparently if I punch someone then I should kill him, if I hack their facebook I should kill him because they're all the same

You talk about laws and court and authority but you forget to mention that the law has a different punishment for each of those felonies precisely because it recognizes the differences in severity of each.

Torture is also every time Superman fights Metallo and disrupts everyday life. Everything is "torture" if you go by its most simplest definition and a good deal of such definitions fall apart when you're discussing these types of characters.

[Agent Z]

When did I defend torture

Yeah it involves kissing and cuddling them until they give up the required info,puhlease. Even teen age fist cuffs end up with wall smashing and dangling someone with the intent of never killing them is so laughably pedestrian that I dont even know what to say.
Maybe you should do some research on actual torture.

Btw, might wanna follow your own advice.

I was pointing out the hilarious strawmanning by that poster. His logic= Batman punches = torture so Batman might as well kill because he also violates privacy. Apparently if I punch someone then I should kill him, if I hack their facebook I should kill him because they're all the same
.

Now look who’s strawmanning.

You talk about laws and court and authority but you forget to mention that the law has a different punishment for each of those felonies precisely because it recognizes the differences in severity of each.

Which has zilch to do with what he said.

Torture is also every time Superman fights Metallo and disrupts everyday life. Everything is "torture" if you go by its most simplest definition and a good deal of such definitions fall apart when you're discussing these types of characters.

Nobody but you believes this nonsense

[darkseidpwns]

Btw, might wanna follow your own advice.

Now look who’s strawmanning.


Which has zilch to do with what he said.


Nobody but you believes this nonsense

I talked about interrogation, maybe in your simple world the power of love gets the job done but a certain level of anguish will be inflicted on the felon. This isn't me defending torture, this is stating a simple fact of life.

You are, your logic boils down to : since Batman violates a bunch of different laws then he might as well kill too.

Batman is a vigilante who is sanctioned unofficially by the police, any one who holds him to any moral authority is a fool. Batman's code is his own and that's all there is to it.

Yeah but privacy violation=murder in your eyes. Your beliefs are so righteous. Here's the thing, every time Superman and Metallo fight they inflict pain upon plenty of hapless citizens. The lives of all the citizens in this fictional world are trapped in a circle of torture. Look at all that noise, property damage, collateral damage etc that occurs and you're worried about wall smashing and dangling, hilarious.

Time to get off that high horse of righteousness, or better yet do something about what you believe instead of complaining about a fictional character.

[Agent Z]

I talked about interrogation,

That word does not mean what you think it means.

maybe in your simple world the power of love gets the job done

It really does not do to accuse someone of strawmanning when you make statements like this.

Batman is a vigilante who is sanctioned unofficially by the police, any one who holds him to any moral authority is a fool. Batman's code is his own and that's all there is to it.

Tell that to his writers and fans.

Yeah but privacy violation=murder in your eyes.

You know I may be wrong about this, but at least I acknowledge they are different acts in the literal sense if not thew spiritual or emotional one while you think interrogation, torture and fighting are the same thing.

Your beliefs are so righteous.

I’ll take this as a compliment.

Here's the thing, every time Superman and Metallo fight they inflict pain upon plenty of hapless citizens. The lives of all the citizens in this fictional world are trapped in a circle of torture. Look at all that noise, property damage, collateral damage etc that occurs and you're worried about wall smashing and dangling, hilarious.

What’s hilarious about this post is that you’ve unintentionally made the perfect argument for superheroes using lethal force on extremely dangerous villains.

Time to get off that high horse of righteousness, or better yet do something about what you believe instead of complaining about a fictional character.

This is a comic book message board where discussion about comic book characters is expected. And that includes complaints as well. I discussed Batman and his methods. Maybe you should follow your advice next time you want to whine about Cass, Shiva, Kate or whatever character you dislike.

[darkseidpwns]

That word does not mean what you think it means.


It really does not do to accuse someone of strawmanning when you make statements like this.


Tell that to his writers and fans.



You know I may be wrong about this, but at least I acknowledge they are different acts in the literal sense if not thew spiritual or emotional one while you think interrogation, torture and fighting are the same thing.


I’ll take this as a compliment.


What’s hilarious about this post is that you’ve unintentionally made the perfect argument for superheroes using lethal force on extremely dangerous villains.


This is a comic book message board where discussion about comic book characters is expected. And that includes complaints as well. I discussed Batman and his methods. Maybe you should follow your advice next time you want to whine about Cass, Shiva, Kate or whatever character you dislike.

It really does

So love conquers all? okaay.

I'd tell that to his haters first and foremost, writers and fans seem to have a decent hang of it.

No you're absolutely wrong about this. Torture can be employed in interrogation but its not what all interrogation is about. What Batman and other vigilantes do is not something I want to see happening in real life. I dont want to live in a world where someone like that operates but that has nothing to do with fiction. Maybe you should stop trying to make people feel guilty about liking fictional characters with your preposterous attempts to force feed your own morality.

Yeah and when did I ever taking a stand on anti killing or pro killing? I already told you that when I want to read about someone solving their problems by killing I read something else (Deathstroke).

You should complain about story, writing and characterization which you never do.

I love Shiva, she's one of my favorite characters and I have read almost everything with her (barring some O'Neal Question stuff), and I like Kate well enough, its Cass that I dont give a damn about and David Cain that I dislike,atleast think before you make a hilariously incorrect statement

[Carabas]

I talked about interrogation, maybe in your simple world the power of love gets the job done but a certain level of anguish will be inflicted on the felon. This isn't me defending torture, this is stating a simple fact of life.

No, what you did was watch way too much "24" and are confusing torture with proper interrogation.

Interrogation does NOT inflict any level of anguish on the interrogee.

If only because your kind of "interrogation" does not actually work outside the realms of fiction.

[darkseidpwns]

No, what you did was watch way too much "24" and are confusing torture with proper interrogation.

Interrogation does NOT inflict any level of anguish on the interrogee.

If only because your kind of "interrogation" does not actually work outside the realms of fiction.

Fair enough, I dont pretend to be an expert in law enforcement. But these things vary from country to country, what is torture in the civilized world could well be standard procedure somewhere else.

[dietrich]

You single that out but not the guy who is defending torture?

Yep cos that tickled me and I didn't notice anyone defending torture.

[Carabas]

Fair enough, I dont pretend to be an expert in law enforcement. But these things vary from country to country, what is torture in the civilized world could well be standard procedure somewhere else.

America has shown that it is a great deal less civilised than many other places on the globe in this area.

[RebirthgotmebackintoDC]

I think Batman doesn't kill for two reasons.

1) he was traumatized by what happened to his parents and never wants to be party to that kind of act. It's why he'll use sonics, explosives, bat planes, whatever, but never a gun.
2) It's DC. And DC's hero definition is very strict. Classic Marvel was more fluid, because they showed sometimes there is no perfect answer. Guys like Punisher, Wolverine, etc were killers, yes, and a lot of times they would be proven wrong. But every so often they have a point, like Wolverine in the Spiderman vs wolverine annual or Punisher vs Daredevil on the rooftops where the reader is shown sometimes there are no easy answers. And I think one of the most heroic things people like Wolverine do is they take that burden on themselves so that others don't have to. Kind of like how Bucky was black ops so Steve (goddammit marvel what did you do to him) could continue to be mr perfect.
DC doesn't do that, and in my opinion, it makes them kind of lacking in that one regard.

[Carabas]

2) It's DC. And DC's hero definition is very strict. Classic Marvel was more fluid, because they showed sometimes there is no perfect answer. Guys like Punisher, Wolverine, etc were killers, yes, and a lot of times they would be proven wrong. But every so often they have a point, like Wolverine in the Spiderman vs wolverine annual or Punisher vs Daredevil on the rooftops where the reader is shown sometimes there are no easy answers. And I think one of the most heroic things people like Wolverine do is they take that burden on themselves so that others don't have to. Kind of like how Bucky was black ops so Steve (goddammit marvel what did you do to him) could continue to be mr perfect.
DC doesn't do that, and in my opinion, it makes them kind of lacking in that one regard.

Well, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, the Flash etcetera have all killed in canon at some point. It's just Batman who doesn't. Or hasn't done so since the fourties anyway.

[RebirthgotmebackintoDC]

Well, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, the Flash etcetera have all killed in canon at some point. It's just Batman who doesn't. Or hasn't done so since the fourties anyway.

Yeah but those events are never spoken of again, or the character realizes they were wrong. For example, Maxwell Lord, what other option did Diana possibly have in that scenario?

[Carabas]

For example, Maxwell Lord, what other option did Diana possibly have in that scenario?

It's a story, not something that really happened. the options were whatever the writer chose to make available, and the writer decided Wonder Woman's actions.

The entire point of the story was that Diana kills when she has to. And no, she stood by that decision. There was no realisation that she was wrong, even after Batman and Superhypocrit condemned her for it.

[Punisher007]

it really depends on the writer. Different writers give him different motivations for his "no killing" rule. And some give better justifications for it than others.

I always attributed it to the fact that his parents were murdered right in front of him when he was like 9 years old. That obviously mentally screwed him up in other ways. So the idea that it plays a role in his not being able to bring himself to kill his enemies, isn't hard to buy.

[Punisher007]

It's both of those.

Honestly I've always hated that second one. Other explanations for it work fine, but that one is just bullcrap.