A New Generation of Superman Fan

[misslane]

And the next scene not long after Superman kills Zod is him destroying a government satellite, quipping with the general and the female soldier calling him hot. Complete tonal contrast in just a few minutes. Not to mention that Superman killing Zod is not followed up in BvS at all and Superman kills the villain again in that movie. People justifying Superman, the pinnacle of superhero morality and justice, killing remains a personal disappointment for how we view Superman. Especially when there are so many problems with the Zod vs Superman fight.

Even when your heart breaks to do something in the moment, it doesn't mean that you carry it with you for days to the point that it negatively affects your ability to function as a hero for the world or for the protection of the people in your own life who could be hurt if the government's spy drones revealed his secret identity. He also needs to approach a new situation with the right demeanor; he can't very well confront Swanwick while still teary eyed over Zod's death. Moreover, as upsetting as it was, it was a decision that he made. I doubt he regrets the killing so much as the fact that the situation got to that point where there were no other options. Which is why seeing Superman choose to take Doomsday out of the city and into space and sacrifice himself are indicative of his growth in terms of learning from his mistakes. As for the rest, I don't know what movie you saw, but no version of BvS features Superman killing anybody. If you're referring to Doomsday, Superman always kills Doomsday, and Doomsday is not alive. He's like a zombie. Explain to me your righteous morality and justice. Tell me, if you had to choose a villain dying to save millions of innocent people, would you choose the villain's life and preserving your own self-righteousness over those innocent lives?

You completely neglect the context that Superman only deals with the villains by killing them which is a fundamentally un-Superman like thing to do. It'd be like Superman killing two villains in two comics back to back.

Since Superman killed both Zod and Doomsday in the comics, I wouldn't say it's not something Superman would ever do. I also wouldn't put Zod and Doomsday on the same level. Zod was a sentient and living thing. Doomsday was neither; he was a zombie. He was all instinct and no thought or emotion. What do you propose, though, that Superman could have done differently with Doomsday? If there isn't a better way, then are you suggesting that Superman can only be Superman and that morality can only be upheld when the world is made easier for you? The real world isn't like that, and morality that isn't tested isn't indicative of morality at all. A Superman who has another option given to him by the narrative is a Superman who is allowed to escape the test and the consequences of having to make a moral decision. It becomes abstract virtue, which is meaningless. So, ask yourself, what is the moral choice in a circumstance with no easy answers?

Superman isn't supposed to go around destroying government property though, that would just make people afraid of him. Besides in the comics Superman just flies faster than he can be tracked which is something Cav-El has yet to figure out.

Superman's been destroying government property and sticking it to the man since his inception. I believe even Reeve's Superman did so when he gathered a bunch of nukes and threw them into the sun. And flying faster to not be tracked? That seems odd, especially since there has to be times when Superman can't do that because he needs to take his time. It doesn't sound practical, and it ignores the principle of the thing, which is that the government shouldn't spy on Superman. Their relationship needs to be built on trust.

Pahahaha saving Lex makes up for killing two villains in a row? Right after he was willing to kill Batman to save his mother? And possibly killed an African warlord threatening Lois? Please the moral bankruptcy in Cav-El could have funded the DCEU ten times over. If the future of Superman fans are those introduced to an emo, moody, self depreciating dead wood collataral destroying murderer, the next generation of Superman fans will ruin everything the character stands for.

Again, not two villains. He also didn't kill the warlord, and that's made clear by his denial to Lois that he didn't kill anyone in Africa. Superman's approach to Batman isn't as clear cut as you're presenting it. Superman says that Lex presented the dilemma as save Martha or kill Batman, but Superman decided to alter that a bit to getting Batman to save Martha or kill Batman. However, knowing what the options are doesn't mean that they are ones you're willing to do or go through with. Superman approaches Batman with humility, apologizing and trying to reason with him. Even in his dying breaths, he was trying to reach Batman. He even says at one point that if he wanted it, Batman would be dead. He didn't want that.

In short, I disagree with what I feel are hyperbolic criticisms of this character and these movies.

[manofsteel1979]

Are we REALLY again going down the " Man of Muhrdurrr!" path again? Ugh.

Anyway, I don't care how a fan discovers Supes. Just so long as he or she discovers him.

[The World]

Whatever my problems with Snyder's Superman I'm glad that 1. After he killed someone he didn't go all mad dog like post-crisis Superman did before sliding into clinical depression and needing therapy 2. Quit being Superman to be with Lois like Donner Superman.

Snyder's Supes isn't the best but he could be a hell of a lot worse. At least he want's to be Superman and isn't schizophrenic.

[BeefBourguignon]

Whatever my problems with Snyder's Superman I'm glad that 1. After he killed someone he didn't go all mad dog like post-crisis Superman did before sliding into clinical depression and needing therapy 2. Quit being Superman to be with Lois like Donner Superman.

Snyder's Supes isn't the best but he could be a hell of a lot worse. At least he want's to be Superman and isn't schizophrenic.

Split personality and self-imposed exile happen to Post-Crisis Superman because of unconscious attack from Brainiac over a period of time. Depression, remorse or needing therapy (which he did not seek) are not personal failings.

[DochaDocha]

needing therapy (which he did not seek)

Perhaps I misunderstand you, but Superman did indeed see a therapist in the 2000's.

[Ascended]

Are we REALLY again going down the " Man of Muhrdurrr!" path again? Ugh.

Anyway, I don't care how a fan discovers Supes. Just so long as he or she discovers him.

This. Are ya'll really arguing about this damn movie again? It's been years, people. Let it go.

Then again, we still argue about post-Crisis/pre-Crisis, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

[Starter Set]

This. Are ya'll really arguing about this damn movie again? It's been years, people. Let it go

yes please!! My god, for how long people are going to argue about that movie lol?

[manduck37]

Here's a pretty simple solution to this whole mess: if you don't like the movie, don't watch it. If you do like it, watch it. See, isn't that easy?

Like I said earlier in this thread, I'm always glad to see a new Superman fan. I don't care where they come from. They're all welcome, as far as I'm concerned. I'll even recommend some stories, if they like. So to those who felt put off because they like MOS, I for one welcome you. I know several others, in this thread even, who feel the same.

[sakuyamons]

Are we REALLY again going down the " Man of Muhrdurrr!" path again? Ugh.

.

Tell that to Zod's snapped neck #MuhSuperman

[beetee]

The only way to test if MOS created a "New Fan" (and not some kid whose MOS lovin' dad ran the DVD) Show the kid Superman The Movie as a control experiment. If the kid turns restless or frowny, then yeah MOS created a brand new fan. My guess it makes no difference to a toddler. It's all Superman to him (even III and IV )

[Kuwagaton]

Someone like any other much more or as much doesn't change that the first movie they saw and enjoyed was MoS.

But having seen III first, StM did indeed make me restless and frowny, haha.

This. Are ya'll really arguing about this damn movie again? It's been years, people. Let it go.

Then again, we still argue about post-Crisis/pre-Crisis, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

The pre vs post vs new arguments, at least recently, get by in a lot of discussions without hostility. After all, it's harder to dislike something so broad.

[Ascended]

Neither of my kids can sit through Superman the Movie. My son loves Man of Steel though, and doesn't care a whit about Zod's snapped neck. What he cares about is that Superman stopped the bad guy and saved a family. He's not mourning the monster, he's celebrating the lives that were saved.

My daughter is too young for MoS, but she does love the old Timm/Dini DCAU stuff, and she's been binge watching Young Justice for the last few weeks. And DC Superhero Girls is her favorite thing (most of the time).

I thought perhaps the problem with Superman the Movie was a matter of age; that film is older than I am (by a couple years) and maybe doesnt age well enough for kids today to really get into it. But my daughter, who is three, loves to watch the old Linda Carter Wonder Woman show with her mother, and my son says that StM is boring and silly, but will watch other, even older, movies or shows with no problem.

[GreatKungLao]

Neither of my kids can sit through Superman the Movie. My son loves Man of Steel though, and doesn't care a whit about Zod's snapped neck. What he cares about is that Superman stopped the bad guy and saved a family. He's not mourning the monster, he's celebrating the lives that were saved.

YES! Everytime I see people bashing Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, they are doing it that way as if like Henry Cavill's Superman did nothing good at all, while pople who loved those movies are concentrated on the good stuff that Superman did. Remember that girl he saved from the burning building? One of the best scenes that everyone remembers... But why should that matter if he kills Doomsday at the end, duh?

I wonder what people wanted Superman to do in that exact situtation in Man of Steel? Keep beating Zod, who made it clear that he will kill every living human being? Let Zod kill family and later figure out how to stop him, just because? I don't remember comic book Superman every being put in such kind of a situation and Man of Steel's Superman did the right thing that was necesarry at the very moment. Was it wrong? Maybe. Did it hurt him? Definitely. Could it have been resolved without further deaths of civillians, but with Zod staying alive? Definitely not, because no Phantom Zone or Kryptonite at the moment of the movie.

[Clark_Kent]

Are we REALLY again going down the " Man of Muhrdurrr!" path again? Ugh.

Anyway, I don't care how a fan discovers Supes. Just so long as he or she discovers him.

My personal favorites are the ones who say "I'm no fan of Superman, but let me tell you ad nauseum how he should be portrayed and you're wrong if you don't agree."

As for, you know, the actual topic here, the more Superman fans we get the better. My kids like the character after watching Man of Steel and BvS...they are 11 & 8 and don't like comics much (yet), but they enjoy the characters they've seen in the movies. Since seeing those, they have also enjoyed the DC animated films and the Justice League / JLU shows.

Sidenote: my 8 year old is OBSESSED with Wonder Woman after watching BvS. She liked her before, but when WW makes the grand entrance in BvS's final battle, she lost her shit lol Each trailer for the WW film leaves her incredibly excited, and she's begging me to keep her out of school on release day (she doesn't know it, but I plan to!). The DCEU has made fans so far of Superman, Wonder Woman, Harley Quinn, Joker, and Captain Boomerang. BOOMERANG! lol So every time I see people saying "these aren't mah superheroes!", I look at my kids and think "who cares? They're theirs."

And to me, that's what's important. DC has us for life; without new generations of fans, the characters will die a slow death. And there won't be a regeneration matrix next time. /2 cents.

[manofsteel1979]

YES! Everytime I see people bashing Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, they are doing it that way as if like Henry Cavill's Superman did nothing good at all, while pople who loved those movies are concentrated on the good stuff that Superman did. Remember that girl he saved from the burning building? One of the best scenes that everyone remembers... But why should that matter if he kills Doomsday at the end, duh?

I wonder what people wanted Superman to do in that exact situtation in Man of Steel? Keep beating Zod, who made it clear that he will kill every living human being? Let Zod kill family and later figure out how to stop him, just because? I don't remember comic book Superman every being put in such kind of a situation and Man of Steel's Superman did the right thing that was necesarry at the very moment. Was it wrong? Maybe. Did it hurt him? Definitely. Could it have been resolved without further deaths of civillians, but with Zod staying alive? Definitely not, because no Phantom Zone or Kryptonite at the moment of the movie.

I remember people, namely a few posters on the old CBR boards,completely serious by the way, actually making the case that Zod was the true hero in MOS was just misunderstood and all Clark had to do was talk it out with him, even perhaps give him the codex and he would have just left earth alone, but since Kal resisted him , HE is the villain and is the only one responsible for all the destruction that followed.

I'm not even exaggerating.