Superman issue #22 discussion (spoilers)

[Nelliebly]

Nelliebly, that requires believing that being a good host is an extreme. Sometimes people complain that dialogue in one comic or another is "too generic" but no one just oozes sass and signature phrases all day. A transcript of a normal conversation or moment in home life may not seem very particular at all.

Also, just because Gleason isn't drawing doesn't determine his input for this issue where the writing goes. We don't have much of a picture of their process at all.

She doesn't have to be "sassy" 24/7. She just has to feel like HER. Several of those scenes that people critiqued could have been adjusted even slightly to be more in character for HER and for the context of their marriage dynamic. It wouldn't even have taken a huge change. Having Clark more consistently serving the food with her (as Jurgens has been better at) would have changed the context of scene. Telling Jon to get up and help because he's got two hands would have changed it. Some of this stuff may seem small to you guys but it can have a big impact on how gender dynamics are felt and perceived.

Look, I don't think we should have to defend asking that they are thoughtful in how they writes her issue to issue. The goal is that we want a book that reflects an understanding of who these people are and that can come into play even with mundane tasks. It's ok to ask for better when it comes to an office that employs no women is writing such an important woman! They should want to improve. I'm rooting for them to keep up this good work and I want to be encouraging.

[Kuwagaton]

TBH, I think its just that he doesn't draw women all that well period. His WW leaves a lot to be desired as well. But I think he'll get better.

Granted, in this case "doesn't draw women all that well" really just means "I don't like it as much."

I loved Mahnke here, like always, but I'm still not sure why he uses so many people on inks

[Maxi]

I enjoyed the extended role of Lois in this but I don't think it has to do with Gleason not drawing. He could have drawn this issue himself the same if the title was monthly.

I like Gleason's cartoonish and expressive looks more because it gives the title a more vibrant, dynamic and fun feeling that elevates the book. But it's just a matter of taste, I guess.

[Superlad93]

I have this theory that the big bad of the arc (a bunch of us know who I'm talking about by now) is actually using Jon's suppressed/stolen powers, and distributing them among the town's people (or at least the authority figures seen in the Kent home this issue). Maybe via them all drinking the same milk as Jon?

Last issue I recall Kathy implying that the big bad is allowing Jon to keep his powers, and possibly the distributor of her powers. The towns people all seems to demonstrate durability, super strength, speed (Candice getting back to the house so fast), and and telekinesis.Batman says that Jon's powers should be "off the charts" by now, so my theory is that what if Jon's only getting like a fraction of his power because it's being divided up between like 7 other people?



Related Lois theory: I wonder if the creative team may eventually heading in the direction of giving Lois the ability to have temporary powers via a safer version of this power distribution? Like the All Star Superman 24 hour super power elixir that both Lois and Lex used in issue 3 and 11 respectively. She'd maybe have a few bottles of a safer version of the milk. This would be like an "emergency situations only" sort of thing for Lois. I figure it's something Tomasi and Gleason might think to do given how much they like referencing and making use of aspects of their old stories. Also the fact that at the very least Tomasi is a big Morrison fan, and is not shy about referencing his ideas in at least spirit. It could leave her exhausted and sleepy as it did in All Star, and it keeps her firmly human/not a superhero, so it doesn't run into the wall of making everyone super in the literal sense. I'd actually be all for this, and the continuation of Lois collecting more trinkets as she goes along. Give her like a "safe box of solitude?"

[Sacred Knight]

Piggybacking off that, what if Jon NEEDS to be connected to at least one normal human or else he burns out and dies? Lois could serve as that permanent human anchor. Maybe instead of something to help her turn on some power every now and again, she takes something like a supplement every day to keep things off on her end. Likewise there's a failsafe where the connection could be temporarily severed, allowing brief moments where he can use a lot of power.

Your idea in general is certainly something new and creative.

[Superlad93]

Not sure how they're going to handle Jon's level of power/number of powers going forward, but whatever it is, I personally really rather it not have anything to do with the powers killing him. Nothing in the comics we've read points that way. As Bruce said 3 issues ago, Jon's body has gone through the required alterations to accommodate his greater powers. All of the complications surrounding Jon's powers have be caused by an outside party. But I do think Clark, Lois, and Bruce will device a way of limiting his powers due to his personal like of control and familiarity with them at their greater levels.

My hope is that the whole situation with Lois possibly getting an All Star-like super elixir will be just an aspect of how they manage Jon's powers. The idea, in theory, would be to give him incremental access to his powers as he grows up. They've also have the ability to revoke some access as a punishment or if he's not feeling confident in his control. Lois being able to access the residuals via an elixir would just function as a bonus, and a way for Jon to keep his mom safe without being there.

But ultimately I'm just in a wait and see mode. Did you happen to catch the fact that Jon does seem to gain kryptonite based powers this arc? I'm really unsure how I feel about that.

[Sacred Knight]

Yeah I saw that. I know its what I speculated, but I'm unsure how I feel about it too. I wouldn't be outright opposed to him having an immunity or something, that it instead is a benefit. But if that were to be the case, he should have a pretty big weakness of his own in that case. I mean you can't have him be immune to Kryptonite but have no weaknesses of his own. We'll see how it plays out. I guess that's why I'm an advocate of the "burn out" theory. To me it would make the most sense as to why, even once this threat is removed, one would want to continue dampening him. If he has to have such potential in the first place (which we know how I feel about that in of itself, but that's moot at this point). If it were a situation, for example, that he just needed management because of his age...I don't know how I'd like the sound of that from a parental side. I would know the intent, but the optics would be really out of whack. Like medicating a kid just so you don't have to deal with him. Just doesn't sit right. If this is something that happens, I'd rather it happens for a reasons of his own health and safety. But that's me.

Of course, maybe we're all off the mark. Maybe they plan to make him and then keep him uber powerful. A terrible mistake in my eyes but they could do it, just because I wouldn't like it doesn't mean they can't. Or perhaps they find another means to delay his growth so he's not too powerful in the present day. Maybe eventually some sort of self-sacrificing move on his part which depletes his solar batteries something fierce and he'll develop at a more "natural" level from that point forward (natural in regards to how a normal Kryptonian powers up).

[Superlad93]

I never thought of it like that, and I can appreciate where you're coming from in light of that. However, having the kid's powers kill him is just such a bummer to me. Kind of goes against the almost silver age unironic fun that radiates from Jon. It's too X-Men-y, I feel. Also I don't really see it as not wanting to deal with him. I see it as he himself incrementally building up the control that the big bad of this arc interfered with him learning/gaining. His body maybe ready but his mind is not. Jon's arc and personality have quite a bit to do with the idea of self-control and responsibility for one's self. After this arc I could see him basically electing to have his powers dampened till he incrementally gets better control. I think that's what they're setting up with the last two issues opening with Jon wishing for even greater power, and the return of acknowledgement of Goldie's death (in this issue and in the first of the arc).

But I do think if K radiation is part of his power set then an additional weakness might be needed. Though, given that Jon has been rendered ill from K radiation before (in this very book) I think it may be our big bad manipulating Jon's powers rather than something natural to him. So, K radiation may just end up being his weakness like it is his dad's.

[darkseidpwns]

Granted, in this case "doesn't draw women all that well" really just means "I don't like it as much."

I loved Mahnke here, like always, but I'm still not sure why he uses so many people on inks

He drew Catwoman and Talia fine, great even.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

It was good, but light on the content this week. I kind of expected it to be more dense than it was.

[stephtanner]

I never thought of it like that, and I can appreciate where you're coming from in light of that. However, having the kid's powers kill him is just such a bummer to me. Kind of goes against the almost silver age unironic fun that radiates from Jon. It's too X-Men-y, I feel. Also I don't really see it as not wanting to deal with him. I see it as he himself incrementally building up the control that the big bad of this arc interfered with him learning/gaining. His body maybe ready but his mind is not. Jon's arc and personality have quite a bit to do with the idea of self-control and responsibility for one's self. After this arc I could see him basically electing to have his powers dampened till he incrementally gets better control. I think that's what they're setting up with the last two issues opening with Jon wishing for even greater power, and the return of acknowledgement of Goldie's death (in this issue and in the first of the arc).

But I do think if K radiation is part of his power set then an additional weakness might be needed. Though, given that Jon has been rendered ill from K radiation before (in this very book) I think it may be our big bad manipulating Jon's powers rather than something natural to him. So, K radiation may just end up being his weakness like it is his dad's.

I have a feeling the villain is corrupting some native power of Jon's and turning it into K radiation. I just can't picture that as a permanent part of his power set because it is literally poison to his father. It doesn't work symbolically since Superman's son is supposed to represent a bright legacy and future of the House of El. Jon's cute character design and his young age doesn't match up with that kind of power either. He's not some angsty teenager that's going to be stressing about a dark power. He's got a bright, optimistic aura to appeal to kids.

As for Lois having a temporary power in emergency situations, that could be intriguing. Maybe Jon could develop the ability to "lend" a person a portion of his power since the villain seems to be doing something similar. It would leave him weak, but the person he gifts it to would be able to defend himself against a super-powered baddie. It could be fun if normal humans around him like Lois, Jimmy, or Damian could acquire a temporary burst of superpower from him.

[Superlad93]

I have a feeling the villain is corrupting some native power of Jon's and turning it into K radiation. I just can't picture that as a permanent part of his power set because it is literally poison to his father. It doesn't work symbolically since Superman's son is supposed to represent a bright legacy and future of the House of El. Jon's cute character design and his young age doesn't match up with that kind of power either. He's not some angsty teenager that's going to be stressing about a dark power. He's got a bright, optimistic aura to appeal to kids.

Yeah I totally agree. I'm thinking that the big bad is maybe altering an ability of Jon's. Maybe he has the power to manipulate/replicate radiation and the big bad is turning that into K radiation. It just seems too specific. The idea that his power is to shoot radiation that's particularly harmful to Superman and not really anyone else.

I hope they have more fun with the concept of Jon having more super powers than his dad. If they go the route of somehow limiting Jon's greater powers, and then safely incrementally allowing him access to them, they can really do something fun with that basic idea.

Like, have you ever seen the cartoon Ben 10? I don't really recommend the newer version of it, but the original and Ben 10 Omniverse are pretty great. If you haven't seen or heard about it, basically it's about a 10 year old kid who finds and alien watch that gives him the power to turn into (at first) 10 different aliens. I bring this up because one of the main--utterly genius--ideas that the show put up was the idea that occasionally Ben (the main character) would unlock a new alien. And it was exciting as hell because they all had cool special powers and came with the most "a 10 year old boy came up with this" names ever. Heat Blast, Four Arms, and Diamond Head were three of the name, just to give you an idea lol

Jon's only 10 and we already know all of Superman's powers so there excitement of "oh my gosh, he can fly now" can't be there really. But if we don't set a concrete limit to how many powers he can have, then that might be interesting. And maybe Clark sets it up so he can only have a few powers at a time for his own safety? I'm spit balling, mainly, but I think Tomasi and Gleason have stumbled onto a character type that lends itself to ideas that are this, well, silver age-y. Jon's like a full on embracing of that sort of matter-of-fact feel. I mean, he's unironically Superman's son, and he's called Superboy.

As for Lois having a temporary power in emergency situations, that could be intriguing. Maybe Jon could develop the ability to "lend" a person a portion of his power since the villain seems to be doing something similar. It would leave him weak, but the person he gifts it to would be able to defend himself against a super-powered baddie. It could be fun if normal humans around him like Lois, Jimmy, or Damian could acquire a temporary burst of superpower from him.

I would actually be really into this. Like Jon can just "wish" a portion of his vast power well onto someone. It has a very Shazam feel to it in a really good way. It's also got a hint of Franklin Richards to it. I was thinking that maybe Jon wouldn't be weakened after depending on how many people he lends his power out to. Like if it's just his mom or Damian, then he's good, but if it's like a dozen people getting equal shares like I believe we're seeing in this issue, then he's gonna be drained. I mean, since Jon's power well is apparently already so vast, then it makes sense that lending to one or two people wouldn't leave him feeling too weak after.

I particularly love the idea of Clark, Jon, and Lois taking family flying trips ever now an then.

[adkal]

Didn't know who the villain is for this arc until coming into this thread, but as the Batmobile fell apart I worried that it was going to be revealed that Cobb was, somehow, Kon...

What? I miss the guy...

[Batmaniac]

Lois kicking ass and taking names: awesome!

[JLH]

Lois kicking ass and taking names: awesome!

Heck yeah! This is the kind of Lois I love seeing. Great issue and great spotlight on LL.