Why won't Marvel hire back legendary X-writer Fabian Nicieza for Resurrection?

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Upon being hired to write the books, Kelly and Seagle sketched out something like a year of stories for each of their titles that Marvel editorial and marketing signed off on. A few months in, though, editorial clamped down, unilaterally scrapped what Kelly and Seagle had planned, and started essentially dictating the plots. (In the stories, you can see the break point in Kelly's truncated "Psi-War" story in X-Men featuring the return of the Shadow King and in Seagle's aborted reformation of the O5 in Alaska in Uncanny.) Initially, Kelly and Seagle played ball with the understanding that they'd get to do their planned stories later on. But, after a few more months, they'd had enough and quit. Marvel editorial then replaced them with Alan Davis and a rotating set of scripters, mainly Terry Kavanagh.

I don't remember if there was a specific editorial-dictated story that drove Kelly and Seagle off. I think they just got tired of being jerked around.

My speculation is this: this was all happening during the 90s comics market crash, around the time of Marvel's bankruptcy. It was also not long after Bob Harras, having become Marvel E-i-C in late 1995/early 1996, had finally stepped back as day-to-day editor of the core X-titles and handed that job over to Mark Powers. I wonder if Kelly and Seagle had gotten their original plans approved by Powers, but not Harras because he was too busy. A few months went by, Harras turned his attention back to the X-books, didn't like what Kelly and Seagle were doing, and intervened, ordering Powers to build toward "The Twelve" arc instead. Either that, or it was all due to Marvel corporate stuff above editorial, and Harras & co. didn't have any say in the matter.

There was a story where Magneto was going to reverse the poles. There was even a cover with Storm, Gambit, Marrow? next to the Pyramids covered in snow......was that part of that?

[gurkle]

One thing I noticed about the Seagle and Kelly runs (which, despite the interference, were better than what came before or after) was how they seemed to be written in an editorially-mandated style. Kelly and Seagle both have their own distinctive ways of writing but on X-Men, they both used the Claremont style that had been the X-office's house style for a long time: the bombastic captions, the angsty thought bubbles, the stock phrases. Mark Waid and John Ostrander and other distinctive writers also seemed to lose some of their usual style when they wrote X-stuff.

All of those things are fine from Claremont but the X-office in the Harras era was notorious for insisting that writers include those Claremontian elements, even if the result wound up sounding generic. I once read something on CBR where Joe Casey mentioned that he was originally hired to do the scripting over Davis's plots (after Kelly/Seagle quit), and he suggested modernizing the style by doing without captions and thought balloons. The editors said no and one assistant editor, he recalled, outright laughed at him.

Of course Big Two companies are never known for their stylistic diversity, and a few years later it would be Claremont who got forced to conform to a more modern house style.

[FUBAR007]

There was a story where Magneto was going to reverse the poles. There was even a cover with Storm, Gambit, Marrow? next to the Pyramids covered in snow......was that part of that?

Maybe.

I know Kelly and Seagle got into a disagreement with Claremont, who had a senior role in editorial at the time, over the characterization of Magneto. I suspect that arc is what eventually became the Magneto War x-over.

[FUBAR007]

One thing I noticed about the Seagle and Kelly runs (which, despite the interference, were better than what came before or after) was how they seemed to be written in an editorially-mandated style. Kelly and Seagle both have their own distinctive ways of writing but on X-Men, they both used the Claremont style that had been the X-office's house style for a long time: the bombastic captions, the angsty thought bubbles, the stock phrases. Mark Waid and John Ostrander and other distinctive writers also seemed to lose some of their usual style when they wrote X-stuff.

All of those things are fine from Claremont but the X-office in the Harras era was notorious for insisting that writers include those Claremontian elements, even if the result wound up sounding generic. I once read something on CBR where Joe Casey mentioned that he was originally hired to do the scripting over Davis's plots (after Kelly/Seagle quit), and he suggested modernizing the style by doing without captions and thought balloons. The editors said no and one assistant editor, he recalled, outright laughed at him.

Of course Big Two companies are never known for their stylistic diversity, and a few years later it would be Claremont who got forced to conform to a more modern house style.

I lament the end of thought bubbles and captions myself. It's part of what led to the "decompressed" standard style we see today. I miss the days when a single issue of a comic contained as much story as a 30-45 min. episode of television. Most contemporary comics equate to about 1/3 of that. It takes less than 5 min. for me to read a typical issue today.

Claremont's flowery prose aside, I disagree that there's anything inherently antiquated about captions and thought bubbles, particularly the former. It all depends on how they're used and each individual writer's style.

[gurkle]

I lament the end of thought bubbles and captions myself. It's part of what led to the "decompressed" standard style we see today. I miss the days when a single issue of a comic contained as much story as a 30-45 min. episode of television. Most contemporary comics equate to about 1/3 of that. It takes less than 5 min. for me to read a typical issue today.

Claremont's flowery prose aside, I disagree that there's anything inherently antiquated about captions and thought bubbles, particularly the former. It all depends on how they're used and each individual writer's style.

I have no problem with captions or thought bubbles, I just think it was a problem that the editorial office enforced that style even when writers didn't want to write that way. And it wasn't just the devices, it was the general writing style. I recently read the X-Men/Brood story from 1996 written by John Ostrander, and I actually liked the story, but much of the dialogue and captions sounded like imitation Claremont, and that's not the way Ostrander usually wrote.

X-Men Brood by John Ostrander.jpg

Claremont's style is his own, but after he was gone, the editors had a habit of trying to fit X-books into that style rather than letting people find their own way. One reason Peter David's X-Factor was a standout book was that it had his voice as a writer.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Claremont was a wonderful author....in the 80s. His return was full of nonsense and threads that were unfinished, jumped in from a "6 month gap" that made no sense, and then pointless stories.

It would've been better to build up to what he wanted to do to have that characterization. The odd changes didn't work since the characters were in multiple books.

[FUBAR007]

Claremont was a wonderful author....in the 80s. His return was full of nonsense and threads that were unfinished, jumped in from a "6 month gap" that made no sense, and then pointless stories.

Historically, Claremont produced his best stuff when he had a strong editor, e.g. Louise Simonson and Ann Nocenti, to keep him focused and balance him out.

His big return in 2000 was a tragic misfire. He and then editor Mark Powers tried to do too much too fast. There was a kernel of an interesting idea in the Neo--the next step beyond mutants as mutants were beyond humans--but it was too underdeveloped when it saw print to really work.

[lancer]

Upon being hired to write the books, Kelly and Seagle sketched out something like a year of stories for each of their titles that Marvel editorial and marketing signed off on. A few months in, though, editorial clamped down, unilaterally scrapped what Kelly and Seagle had planned, and started essentially dictating the plots. (In the stories, you can see the break point in Kelly's truncated "Psi-War" story in X-Men featuring the return of the Shadow King and in Seagle's aborted reformation of the O5 in Alaska in Uncanny.) Initially, Kelly and Seagle played ball with the understanding that they'd get to do their planned stories later on. But, after a few more months, they'd had enough and quit. Marvel editorial then replaced them with Alan Davis and a rotating set of scripters, mainly Terry Kavanagh.

I don't remember if there was a specific editorial-dictated story that drove Kelly and Seagle off. I think they just got tired of being jerked around.

My speculation is this: this was all happening during the 90s comics market crash, around the time of Marvel's bankruptcy. It was also not long after Bob Harras, having become Marvel E-i-C in late 1995/early 1996, had finally stepped back as day-to-day editor of the core X-titles and handed that job over to Mark Powers. I wonder if Kelly and Seagle had gotten their original plans approved by Powers, but not Harras because he was too busy. A few months went by, Harras turned his attention back to the X-books, didn't like what Kelly and Seagle were doing, and intervened, ordering Powers to build toward "The Twelve" arc instead. Either that, or it was all due to Marvel corporate stuff above editorial, and Harras & co. didn't have any say in the matter.

That is the way I remember it. More like an accumulation of things where they got tired of the interfering. I remember a bunch of things that I read. Psylocke dying in PSI WAR. I remember seeing art work for the Magneto story. Reversing the poles was going to create sort of an ice age. At least they got to tell a Magneto story of sorts. Cyclops's team was going to have a new approach, not exactly Xavier's. Hopefully, it wouldn't have been anything like the last decade plus version. Although I recall nothing in Kelly and Seagle's Cyclops, what they did write of him, that would indiicate that. I just didn't recall ever reading that it was THE TWELVE specifically that caused the departure.

IMO, Kelly wrote a more straight up villain than I would imagine Claremont woud have preferred.
Murdering Odekirk for 50 year old forgeries not holding up. X MEN 85, IMO, does not present Magneto with a legitimate point of view. He tests one random human before he makes his move.
The guy is clearly not inherently anti mutant. When he doesn't get the answers he wants, Magneto basically traumatizes the guy by scaring the crap out of him. Until the guy says what Magneto wants to hear. Meanwhile, the X Men change the minds of a group of policeman initially predisposed to distrust them. Showing that Xavier's dream can work.

It's not that I'm criticizing the issue. I applaud the X Men part. Thay may never win the war, but you have to let them win battles. It can't be every human they encounter hates them. Claremont would do this periodically. They would get small victories. It gives the dream validity.
I'm just saying the issue was very one sided. I don't think it's how Claremont would do it. At least from Magneto's POV. This was just addressing your comments on the conflict between the 3 creators over Magneto's characterization. Writers differed. Some wanted the villain, others the more anti heroic Claremont version.