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  1. #91
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Well since it's a fictional story, then they don't need to fall in love. In fact, you could make the argument she didn't need a love interest and that it was rather progressive for Perez to have Diana's main relationships if focus be with her mother and female friends.

    When has it been modernised three times? Rucka and Jenkins basically used the old set up for their stories.
    He could have done that while still leaving Steve young and a future option. And even if she did fall in love with him, that doesn't mean her relationships with her mother and friends wouldn't get focus, Or even most of the focus. She did more than hang out with Steve in the Golden Age as well.

    They modernized it by not having her fall in love with him while he was unconscious and not having it be her primary motivation for leaving the island. Its not necessary to remove the possibility of her loving a man to make the story feminist. They didn't throw the baby out with the bath water. And Rucka used the romance and still arguably put greater focus on the dynamic with Barbara. And LoWW had plenty of dynamics with other women as well and the romance was still there. It doesn't have to overshadow anything.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    He could have done that while still leaving Steve young and a future option. And even if she did fall in love with him, that doesn't mean her relationships with her mother and friends wouldn't get focus, Or even most of the focus. She did more than hang out with Steve in the Golden Age as well.

    They modernized it by not having her fall in love with him while he was unconscious and not having it be her primary motivation for leaving the island. Its not necessary to remove the possibility of her loving a man to make the story feminist. They didn't throw the baby out with the bath water. And Rucka used the romance and still arguably put greater focus on the dynamic with Barbara. And LoWW had plenty of dynamics with other women as well and the romance was still there. It doesn't have to overshadow anything.
    Still better to remove the risk of that happening but fair enough I suppose.

  3. #93
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Still better to remove the risk of that happening but fair enough I suppose.
    And be left with characters with no purpose? No thanks I'd rather Perez get rid of Steve and Etta if he was not going to do anything very interesting with them. You could take Steve and Etta out of the story back then and nothing would have changed. But if he was going to use he should have stretched his mind muscles more.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 02-08-2018 at 10:17 AM.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  4. #94
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwangung View Post
    Frankly, Steve Trevor IS not needed for the title...UNLESS they tie him inextricably into the themes of the book. Man's world...man. Violence...military man. Way of violence vs way of the warrior...Those are the themes Steve Trevor can feed on...and I have yet to see a writer get even close to that.
    I think that's precisely the problem with Steve not only does he not have any goals of his own he and Etta lack a bigger stake in the Wonder Woman mythos and I can imagine that they can have one they just need someone whose willing to be a rock star break whatever Marston and old writers left behind.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    And be left with characters with no purpose? No thanks I'd rather Perez get rid of Steve and Etta if he was not going to do anything very interesting with them. You could take Steve and Etta out of the story back then and nothing would have changed. But if he was going to use he should have stretched his mind muscles more.
    There's a difference between a purpose you don't like and no purpose.

  6. #96
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    There's a difference between a purpose you don't like and no purpose.
    What was Steve's purpose in the Perez run beyond being a friend of dubious importance?

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    There's a difference between a purpose you don't like and no purpose.
    I would have happily given old man Steve and his bride Etta a chance if they impressed me but Etta's character arc was dictated by how she felt about her looks and feared that Steve would not like her because of it not to mention worrying about Steve that's not boring but unless it was comedy I wouldn't want to read those parts. But aside from it being Etta's character arc what did it contribute to the Wonder Woman mythos? And Steve had pretty much everything taken away. Any chance to romance Diana was gone because he was too old for her but that's of minimal importance compared to everything else. His role as Diana's call to adventure was taken away by the Greek gods and him crash landing on Themyscira was little more than an obligation at best. His sibling connection with Diana was not built well as Diana spent too much time away from him. And it's establishment was more about his mother than Steve and Diana. And his role as the first modern person to land on Themyscira and chance to show himself as a strong character was taken away by his mother whose death didn't even the same strong impact or importance as the deaths of Thomas and Martha Wayne, Jor-El and Lara, and Uncle Ben. In fact it would have been more exciting if Steve showed that a man who Amazons do not think much of (depending on the writer) can be just as brave and strong as them. It would have been on the same scale as Mary Jane Watson's introduction and Lois Lane's during the Golden Age of Comics but nope it was not worth the trouble to strengthen Steve and Etta. It was clear that George Perez while willing to use Steve and Etta didn't put much effort into making them compelling as Diana herself or the new supporting characters not counting Detective Ed Indelicato. So what importance does he or Etta even have that could not have been fulfilled by the Kapatelis women and Hermes? I was more than right to assume that the old characters got watered down somehow.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 02-09-2018 at 11:57 AM.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    What was Steve's purpose in the Perez run beyond being a friend of dubious importance?
    He was suppose to be the liaison between the US and the Amazons but you know how well that turned out.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  9. #99
    Spectacular Member LadyP's Avatar
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    George Perez's Wonder Woman will always be my definitive take on Diana. No question about that.
    Steve is not the main character, Diana is. He is one of several supporting characters in her book (love interest or not), as such he takes no precedence. So that some take exception to Perez due to how they feel another character that isn't Diana, the main character of concern, was written is interesting to me.

    However, as I see it, George Perez helped to really establish Diana as a powerhouse. It was through the post crisis era that I came to know and love Diana. He showcased her strength while juxtaposing her naïveté in "man's world" which I always found endearing and relatable. Being a "pseudo immigrant," myself, she was a character who's confusion at certain things in a culture she was acclaimating to was very relatable. It is not unrealistic that someone with strong cultural identities elsewhere could still be confused about certain customs of a new/different place even if that person has been there 5 or even 10 years.

    I loved that while he showed her as a powerhouse warrior, he didn't over-emphasize her warrior side. It was her heart that was/is the most compelling thing about her. She is first and foremost a compassionate woman who seeks peace. He knew how to balance these two seemingly contradictory aspects of her character that not many writers seem to get.
    Last edited by LadyP; 02-10-2018 at 06:41 AM. Reason: Edited for clarity

  10. #100
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    GREG POTTER and GEORGE PEREZ era was the best WONDER WOMAN EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyP View Post
    George Perez's Wonder Woman will always be my definitive take on Diana. No question about that.
    Steve is not the main character, Diana is. He is one of several supporting characters in her book (love interest or not), as such he takes no precedence. So that some take exception to him due to how they feel another character that isn't Diana, the main character of concern, was written is interesting to me.

    However, as I see it, George Perez helped to really establish Diana as a powerhouse. It was through the post crisis era that I came to know and love Diana. He showcased her strength while juxtaposing her naïveté in "man's world" which I always found endearing and relatable. Being a "pseudo immigrant," myself, she was a character who's confusion at certain things in a culture she was acclaimating to was very relatable. It is not unrealistic for someone with strong cultural identities elsewhere could still be confused about certain customs even if that person has been there 5 or even 10 years.

    I loved that while he showed her as a powerhouse warrior, he didn't over-emphasize her warrior side. It was her heart that was/is the most compelling thing about her. She is first and foremost a compassionate woman who seeks peace. He knew how to balance these two seemingly contradictory aspects of her character that not many writers seem to get.
    I'm still amazed that some are like-minded enough to think about Steve from what I can tell most fans don't care about or Etta for that matter. But how is it interesting to you? Is it because no one has talked much about her supporting cast?
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 02-10-2018 at 02:28 AM.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  12. #102
    Spectacular Member LadyP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    I'm still amazed that some are like-minded enough to think about Steve from what I can tell most fans don't care about or Etta for that matter. But how is it interesting to you? Is it because no one has talked much about her supporting cast?
    I believe I stated it's the emphasis on Steve as to why people take exception to George Perez being the reason. However, in looking back at my comment it may not have been that clear, so I made it clearer. Hope that helps.
    Last edited by LadyP; 02-10-2018 at 06:46 AM. Reason: I think faster than I type. ��

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyP View Post
    I believe I stated it's the emphasis on Steve as to why people take exception to George Perez being the reason. However, in looking back at my comment it may not have been that clear, so I made it clearer. Hope that helps.
    Okay I see it now I guess it some of us like Steve even though he is a bland character but it's not his fault when the writers themselves don't put much thought into revamping him old or not. I admit I am at times not sure why do people me included focus on Steve but I suppose it could also be attributed how Wonder Woman has a very weak supporting cast compared to the other members of the Trinity.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  14. #104
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyP View Post
    George Perez's Wonder Woman will always be my definitive take on Diana. No question about that.
    Steve is not the main character, Diana is. He is one of several supporting characters in her book (love interest or not), as such he takes no precedence. So that some take exception to Perez due to how they feel another character that isn't Diana, the main character of concern, was written is interesting to me..
    Having a strong set of recurring supporting characters helps make the franchise as a whole stronger though. It's one of the reasons Superman and Batman have stronger properties than she does. He and Etta get so much discussion from the Perez run because they are the only characters aside from Hippolyta that he kept from the old comics, and Perez didn't do much for them. He featured them when he might as well not have, since he put way more focus on his pet characters. The characters he focused on instead didn't prove any more enduring, barring Jimenez and Rucka using Nessie as the Swan.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Having a strong set of recurring supporting characters helps make the franchise as a whole stronger though. It's one of the reasons Superman and Batman have stronger properties than she does. He and Etta get so much discussion from the Perez run because they are the only characters aside from Hippolyta that he kept from the old comics, and Perez didn't do much for them. He featured them when he might as well not have, since he put way more focus on his pet characters. The characters he focused on instead didn't prove any more enduring, barring Jimenez and Rucka using Nessie as the Swan.
    Every supporting cast has one or two members that don't get as much spotlight as the rest. I get that Steve and Etta are Marston creations but is it really so terrible that Perez focused on characters he created and personally liked more same as any other writer? Characters endure by persistent use something DC has had trouble doing for certain characters regardless of their popularity. Pet characters get tossed out too liberally on message boards.

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