Bart Allen Appreciation!

[Assam]

Well, it's definitely not character assassination. Even if you feel he was written out of character, that's a very different thing than character assassination.

No, it WAS assassination. Someone simply being written out of character implies that they went back to being written well. Bart NEVER got better. (There were brief instances where he came close such as in Legion of 3 Worlds and to a lesser extent, Kid Flash Lost, but it was never consistent.)

Honestly, the Kid Flash thing isn't a huge deal. He's acts the same. Honestly, I think the transition is pretty seemless. It isn't until he becomes that Flash that he starts being not Bart Allen-y.

Ignoring the fact that he doesn't act the same, my big problem with him becoming 'Kid Flash' of all things comes down to one factor: Max Mercury. Bart and Wally were not close. Bart didn't know Barry. The most important person in Bart's life, without question, was Max. If he was going to change his name to ANYTHING, it would be to something like, as the fan-comics I've posted here show, Kid Mercury. And the insult to Bart's surrogate father is only made worse by the fact that ever since Impulse ended, Max has been shafted. (In the 15 years since the book ended, Max has been in limbo for 8 of them, and non existent for 6 and counting.)

Degazo doesn't join until issue 50 though, right? And Waid leaves after 27. How's the gap between?

Still very good! It was even during this interlude that we first met Cissie King-Jones. This book managed the almost unheard of feat of having almost 100 issues without any truly bad stories. Well...the book doesn't end well, but that's because of editorial, and Degazo was clearly trying his best with the hand he was dealt. (Basically sums up all my favorite books, really )

I am looking forward to Mercury Falling as I've heard good things. However, since I'm only on 17 (Read two more since I last wrote, both of which were great, but the one where Max's relationship to Helen is revealed was especially good), it might be a while. I'm trying to read Robin and Superboy at the same time, but so far Impulse has been the superior title, so I may move through it quicker.

I enjoy Robin and Superboy, but I think Impulse blows them both completely out of the water in every way.

[Frontier]

Ignoring the fact that he doesn't act the same, my big problem with him becoming 'Kid Flash' of all things comes down to one factor: Max Mercury. Bart and Wally were not close. Bart didn't know Barry. The most important person in Bart's life, without question, was Max. If he was going to change his name to ANYTHING, it would be to something like, as the fan-comics I've posted here show, Kid Mercury. And the insult to Bart's surrogate father is only made worse by the fact that ever since Impulse ended, Max has been shafted. (In the 15 years since the book ended, Max has been in limbo for 8 of them, and non existent for 6 and counting.)

I like the idea of them being close (or closer).

[Jekyll]

I like the idea of them being close (or closer).

What about Bart's relationship with Jay? Jay did adopt him and take him under his wing as well. Perhaps Bart was paying homage to Jay when he became kid flash?

[Assam]

What about Bart's relationship with Jay? Jay did adopt him and take him under his wing as well. Perhaps Bart was paying homage to Jay when he became kid flash?

And because of the sheer disrespect to Max, I hate this. (Sorry Jay, still love ya, just not in this instance) And also, no, that really wasn't what they were going for anyway.

[Frontier]

What about Bart's relationship with Jay? Jay did adopt him and take him under his wing as well. Perhaps Bart was paying homage to Jay when he became kid flash?

I really enjoyed that too .

[Sam]

No, it WAS assassination. Someone simply being written out of character implies that they went back to being written well. Bart NEVER got better. (There were brief instances where he came close such as in Legion of 3 Worlds and to a lesser extent, Kid Flash Lost, but it was never consistent.)

I'm not sure you understand what character assassination is. It's a deliberate attempt to sabotage the reputation of a character. Even when he was enduring his worst characterization, Bart was always portrayed as a good person. He wasn't running around murdering people or clubbing seals or anything.

Ignoring the fact that he doesn't act the same, my big problem with him becoming 'Kid Flash' of all things comes down to one factor: Max Mercury. Bart and Wally were not close. Bart didn't know Barry. The most important person in Bart's life, without question, was Max. If he was going to change his name to ANYTHING, it would be to something like, as the fan-comics I've posted here show, Kid Mercury. And the insult to Bart's surrogate father is only made worse by the fact that ever since Impulse ended, Max has been shafted. (In the 15 years since the book ended, Max has been in limbo for 8 of them, and non existent for 6 and counting.)

He acts exactly the same. I don't think this is about the way he acts for you. I seems to just be about the fact that Max isn't there any more. While I love Max, I don't think it was a bad thing that Bart got a chance to bond with Jay more. They made a good pair too. A boy is allowed more than one surrogate father after all. As for his move to being Kid Flash, the identity he chose had nothing to do with who he was closest to. It was about him proving to Wally that he was worthy of the Flash legacy and having a place in the Titans. His point was that he was tired of people underestimating him or treating him like a flake. Even the name Impulse is reflective of that view of him. It's him proving his metal.

Still very good! It was even during this interlude that we first met Cissie King-Jones. This book managed the almost unheard of feat of having almost 100 issues without any truly bad stories. Well...the book doesn't end well, but that's because of editorial, and Degazo was clearly trying his best with the hand he was dealt. (Basically sums up all my favorite books, really )

Yeah, the only comic I can think of with a streak that long is really The Flash vol. 2. Hopefully, this holds up.

I enjoy Robin and Superboy, but I think Impulse blows them both completely out of the water in every way.

Robin I've liked so far. Superboy...is another story. Seeing a bunch of 20-something women fight over an obnoxious 15-year-old boy is frankly just creepy. Really hoping they move away from this awful love triangle.

What about Bart's relationship with Jay? Jay did adopt him and take him under his wing as well. Perhaps Bart was paying homage to Jay when he became kid flash?

The only good part of Bart's run as The Flash was when Jay told Bart he was like a son to him and Joan.

[Assam]

I'm not sure you understand what character assassination is. It's a deliberate attempt to sabotage the reputation of a character. Even when he was enduring his worst characterization, Bart was always portrayed as a good person. He wasn't running around murdering people or clubbing seals or anything.

I misunderstood the term. Fair enough.

He acts exactly the same. I don't think this is about the way he acts for you. I seems to just be about the fact that Max isn't there any more. While I love Max, I don't think it was a bad thing that Bart got a chance to bond with Jay more. They made a good pair too. A boy is allowed more than one surrogate father after all. As for his move to being Kid Flash, the identity he chose had nothing to do with who he was closest to. It was about him proving to Wally that he was worthy of the Flash legacy and having a place in the Titans. His point was that he was tired of people underestimating him or treating him like a flake.

No, no it really isn't just about that. Nothing about Kid FlashBart for the most part reminds me about ImpulseBart. If you can see similarities, great. But for me, almost no writers had his voice down, and he became a generic "He can be immature sometimes, but he's still a serious hero" character. Not to mention, him "being tired" of something like that is out of character. Unless you're one of his best friends or Max, BART DOES NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK OF HIM. His "friends" thinking of him that way was OOC as well, just like all of THEIR behavior. It was just part of the "YOUNG JUSTICE WAS STUPID AND YOU SHOULD HATE IT FOR BEING FUN" parade that was Johns' entire run.

Even the name Impulse is reflective of that view of him. It's him proving his metal.

BWAHAHAHA! Oh my god!

I know you have a ways to go in Impulse, but when you get to a certain point, you'll realize how funny and wrong that is.

[married guy]

Impulse was consistently excellent.
The first two years in particular with Waid & Ramos just killing it every month. (Bart's thought balloons would often make me laugh out loud)
I'm also another one who hated the change from Impulse to Kid Flash.
Yes, it was demanded by TPTB, but Johns did take a lot of the fun out of the character thereafter.
Don't read the Johns era Teen Titans and stick to the Young Justice and Impulse books instead.

Also, BRING BACK MAX MERCURY DAMMIT!

[Sam]

I misunderstood the term. Fair enough.

No, no it really isn't just about that. Nothing about Kid FlashBart for the most part reminds me about ImpulseBart. If you can see similarities, great. But for me, almost no writers had his voice down, and he became a generic "He can be immature sometimes, but he's still a serious hero" character. Not to mention, him "being tired" of something like that is out of character. Unless you're one of his best friends or Max, BART DOES NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK OF HIM. His "friends" thinking of him that way was OOC as well, just like all of THEIR behavior. It was just part of the "YOUNG JUSTICE WAS STUPID AND YOU SHOULD HATE IT FOR BEING FUN" parade that was Johns' entire run.

BWAHAHAHA! Oh my god!

I know you have a ways to go in Impulse, but when you get to a certain point, you'll realize how funny and wrong that is.

Considering how fun Johns's run is I think you are seeing a criticism of Young Justice that simply isn't there. Johns's Teen Titans is far from super serious and gritty. And yes, Bart does care what Wally thinks, and he and Jay and Max all would underestimate at times throughout The Flash. I may not have finished Impulse, but I have read all of The Flash, and it happens all the way through. The moment where the others believe Linda is his imaginary friend is a prime example.

I'm not saying he doesn't show how capable he is before he becomes Kid Flash. I know he does many times, but that doesn't mean the others always treat him with respect and it doesn't always mean he always takes situations seriously. Characters don't change over night, but Bart is showing Wally and everyone how much he's grown since they first met. Yet he is still the exact same person, just a little older and wiser and more familiar with the contents of the San Francisco library.

[Assam]

Considering how fun Johns's run is I think you are seeing a criticism of Young Justice that simply isn't there. Johns's Teen Titans is far from super serious and gritty.

Are we talking about the same comic?

I'm not saying he doesn't show how capable he is before he becomes Kid Flash. I know he does many times, but that doesn't mean the others always treat him with respect and it doesn't always mean he always takes situations seriously.

All of his friends and loved ones (Wally doesn't fall into this category) DID treat him with respect. The idea that they didn't in TT was OOC.

And no, Bart didn't always take situations seriously. Why should he? Because most other heroes do? The whole point of Bart as a character is that there isn't anyone quite like him. The fact that he was such a hyperactive weirdo who also had a heart as pure as they come is why I love him and can relate to him so much.

Characters don't change over night, but Bart is showing Wally and everyone how much he's grown since they first met. Yet he is still the exact same person, just a little older and wiser and more familiar with the contents of the San Francisco library.

Shakes head Nope.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Yeah, count me in as someone who doesn't understand how people think that Bart as Kid Flash and Impulse were at all the same character. Impulse was an incredibly unique creation with much of his fun and hyperactivity sanded away when Johns launched Teen Titans. But then, he screwed up Superboy and Wonder Girl too. TT wasn't a bad book, by the way, but Johns' inability to write these characters consistently with what came before was a millstone around its neck that it never got over.

As for Impulse's series, I've only read the Waid stuff and some of the later issues but, yeah, what an amazing book. I wonder if they'll ever try collecting it again - last time they did, they cancelled it before even the first volume came out.

[sakuyamons]

I think that the main problem with KF!Bart is that deletes the purpose of the character, he spend Young Justice (and his solo book, for the issues I have read) to estabilish that he is NOT Kid Flash, and I don't mind him being KF that much, but I also believe that it would have been more in character to attempt to gain Wally's respect by NOT becoming KF imo.

I don't think Bart acts the same in Johns run than in Impulse/YJ, like yeah, he is still immature, but it was almost like Johns wanted to "normalize" him, I don't know if that makes sense, but still, I think he is recognizable in TT, but not the same character. YJTV did an angsitier Bart and managed it better. But yeah, he's not the only one written out of character in TT v3, but is the one people recognize the most.

I was so mad the way they talked about Bart on his funeral, especially when Tim was like "I didn't take him seriously – not as a hero or as a person, but I should have" and that is not true

[Assam]

TT wasn't a bad book

I'd struggle to call any Titans book between 2003 and 2016 "good". If we're specifically talking about Johns' run, the stories were weak, the "DARK" tropes of the time quickly rose to prominence, the constant disrespect to Young Justice made me want to rip up the comics, and it's hard to make a cast work (or even make them bearable) when over half of them either are acting OOC or shouldn't be there at all. (YJ4 obviously being the ones OOC, along with Gar, who'd grown the Hell up by this point. And Vic was only brought back into the fold because of the f**king animated series. His story was DONE.) Not to mention all the other characters Johns ruined in that run alone: Rose Wilson, Slade Wilson (Though Metlzer shares the blame there), Cody Driscoll, Inertia, etc.

[Assam]

I don't think Bart acts the same in Johns run than in Impulse/YJ, like yeah, he is still immature, but it was almost like Johns wanted to "normalize" him, I don't know if that makes sense

Exactly. As I said, they took a character whose personality was completely unique, and made him a generic "I can sometimes be immature" character.

But yeah, he's not the only one written out of character in TT v3, but is the one people recognize the most.

It is a crime how few people realize what Kon and Cassie (Plus all the others I mentioned) were like before this run.

I was so mad the way they talked about Bart on his funeral, especially when Tim was like "I didn't take him seriously – not as a hero or as a person, but I should have" and that is not true

I hate it all so much.

[sakuyamons]

I think Geoff run was decent and I don't hate it enough as I feel I should (mainly because it was my first comic) but I feel that he tried to make it too "dark" and the drama essentially was about Titans members dying/getting mutilated.

I think I didn't read Slade's Titans, how was Inertia ruined?