Bart Allen Appreciation!

[Frontier]

In your opinion, and the opinion of some others as well. In my opinion, those characters seem the same. Anyway, Johns's run does contain a lot of references to the past, including some of the other Young Justice characters showing up in cameos.

Cissie and Greta's appearances was pretty awesome .

[sakuyamons]

Cissie and Greta's appearances was pretty awesome .

When they show up to defend Cassie >

Though I'm so mad that the DCU erased Anita from existence I'll always have Cassie's mini to confirm they are still in contact

[Ilan Preskovsky]

I'd struggle to call any Titans book between 2003 and 2016 "good". If we're specifically talking about Johns' run, the stories were weak, the "DARK" tropes of the time quickly rose to prominence, the constant disrespect to Young Justice made me want to rip up the comics, and it's hard to make a cast work (or even make them bearable) when over half of them either are acting OOC or shouldn't be there at all. (YJ4 obviously being the ones OOC, along with Gar, who'd grown the Hell up by this point. And Vic was only brought back into the fold because of the f**king animated series. His story was DONE.) Not to mention all the other characters Johns ruined in that run alone: Rose Wilson, Slade Wilson (Though Metlzer shares the blame there), Cody Driscoll, Inertia, etc.

I don't exactly disagree, which is why I said it's "not bad" rather than "good". It is an odd thing but between his natural chops and working with excellent artists, Johns is enough of a pro that his comics work on a basic craft level, even if I despise everything about it. It's why it took me something like four issues to realize how terrible Flash: Rebirth was when with the same characterization and plot but written by someone who doesn't have as good a feel for comic book storytelling as Geoff Johns, I think I would have given up on it after four panels.

[stephens2177]

Imo Geoff is one of the best writers comics have seen,but one that doesn't get the characters he is writing,and will change them to make them work for his story.

[sakuyamons]

Imo Geoff is one of the best writers comics have seen,but one that doesn't get the characters he is writing,and will change them to make them work for his story.

I agree, though I think that this applies to most comic writers though

[Assam]

Imo Geoff is one of the best writers comics have seen,but one that doesn't get the characters he is writing,and will change them to make them work for his story.

Definitely disagree with Geoff being one of the best. Even leaving aside what he does to characters, he relies and several of the same tropes in much of his work, most of them not even being good tropes to being with.

Plus, despite everyone thinking of him now as The Rebirth Guy who wants to bring back the good DC and oh man Geoff is one of the good guys...some of us haven't forgotten how heavily he leaned into the darkness and bleakness of everything when THAT was what the company was going for. I'd say he has more business sense than writing ability honestly. He toed the company line, doing what he was told, and he appealed to the nostalgia of older fans by assisting in the burning of everything which came after the Silver Age, and provided glorification of said Silver Age. And now he's president of the company. I think it's pretty horrible myself that he gets honored and glorified for all the crap he's done, but the dude's got game in the business world.

I agree, though I think that this applies to most comic writers though

I'm pretty sure Johns holds the record though for most characters killed, ruined/changed completely, and/or assassinated over multiple books. Over 30 by my count, and that's not even getting into books he didn't write, but no doubt had a hand in.

[sakuyamons]

Definitely disagree with Geoff being one of the best. Even leaving aside what he does to characters, he relies and several of the same tropes in much of his work, most of them not even being good tropes to being with.

Plus, despite everyone thinking of him now as The Rebirth Guy who wants to bring back the good DC and oh man Geoff is one of the good guys...some of us haven't forgotten how heavily he leaned into the darkness and bleakness of everything when THAT was what the company was going for. I'd say he has more business sense than writing ability honestly. He toed the company line, doing what he was told, and he appealed to the nostalgia of older fans by assisting in the burning of everything which came after the Silver Age, and provided glorification of said Silver Age. And now he's president of the company. I think it's pretty horrible myself that he gets honored and glorified for all the crap he's done, but the dude's got game in the business world.



I'm pretty sure Johns holds the record though for most characters killed, ruined/changed completely, and/or assassinated over multiple books. Over 30 by my count, and that's not even getting into books he didn't write, but no doubt had a hand in.

I think Geoff "blackness" and edgyness come from a younger Geoff who thinks "edgier is better", I mean, there was a time I was super into seinen and super edgy mangas...then I realized that it doesn't mean a good story, hopefully Geoff understood this and that's why he came with Rebirth? Though I agree he is very trope-y

[Frontier]

Definitely disagree with Geoff being one of the best. Even leaving aside what he does to characters, he relies and several of the same tropes in much of his work, most of them not even being good tropes to being with.

Plus, despite everyone thinking of him now as The Rebirth Guy who wants to bring back the good DC and oh man Geoff is one of the good guys...some of us haven't forgotten how heavily he leaned into the darkness and bleakness of everything when THAT was what the company was going for. I'd say he has more business sense than writing ability honestly. He toed the company line, doing what he was told, and he appealed to the nostalgia of older fans by assisting in the burning of everything which came after the Silver Age, and provided glorification of said Silver Age. And now he's president of the company. I think it's pretty horrible myself that he gets honored and glorified for all the crap he's done, but the dude's got game in the business world.

Well, he helped get me into comics and introduced me to several of my favorite DC characters and concepts, so I guess I just can't think badly of him .

I'm pretty sure Johns holds the record though for most characters killed, ruined/changed completely, and/or assassinated over multiple books. Over 30 by my count, and that's not even getting into books he didn't write, but no doubt had a hand in.

You'd be surprised (plus character assassination is a subjective, if valid, criticism).

I think Geoff "blackness" and edgyness come from a younger Geoff who thinks "edgier is better", I mean, there was a time I was super into seinen and super edgy mangas...then I realized that it doesn't mean a good story, hopefully Geoff understood this and that's why he came with Rebirth? Though I agree he is very trope-y

Well, I think even Geoff ultimately falls more on the idealistic and optimistic side of things, even in his more grittier and edgier work and that Rebirth was a testament to what he generally sees as the core of the DCU even if he hasn't always reflected that in his work.

Just my take on it though.

I don't think being trope-y is bad, depending on your opinion on said tropes.

[sakuyamons]

Yeah, I don't think being trope-y is bad, I mean most writers are trope-y I think that he has a pattern of being "repetitive", but that happens when you're a pro, you fall into "cliches" imo.

And well, Geoff does write characters ooc sometimes, but I've seen worse takes, like Alex "don't call me a mutant just call me Alex" Summers

[Frontier]

Yeah, I don't think being trope-y is bad, I mean most writers are trope-y I think that he has a pattern of being "repetitive", but that happens when you're a pro, you fall into "cliches" imo.

And well, Geoff does write characters ooc sometimes, but I've seen worse takes, like Alex "don't call me a mutant just call me Alex" Summers

Oh Remender .

Seriously, I can think of a few Marvel writers who can definitely top Johns on that scale.

[Assam]

Well, he helped get me into comics and introduced me to several of my favorite DC characters and concepts, so I guess I just can't think badly of him .

He's created some of my favorite characters, MADE some characters who existed before into favorites of mine, I've enjoyed several books he's written, and it was because of his Aquaman run and his Aquaman run alone that I didn't have the first period of time in my life where I wasn't following any new DC books.

But the good just doesn't outweigh the bad for me.

[Frontier]

He's created some of my favorite characters, MADE some characters who existed before into favorites of mine, I've enjoyed several books he's written, and it was because of his Aquaman run and his Aquaman run alone that I didn't have the first period of time in my life where I wasn't following any new DC books.

But the good just doesn't outweigh the bad for me.

It's the opposite for me, but it's important that we all have our perspectives, however different they may be .

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Geoff Johns is, to my mind, one of the strangest comics creators out there. I have trouble thinking of anyone else who is such a mess of good and bad points. On the plus side, he is a remarkably proficient comic book writer who really knows how the medium works and how to tell stories through it; he has a knack for writing really great morally ambiguous anti-heroes and sympathetic villains; he can create interest in characters that have been all but written off; he has a good appreciation of the importance of legacy to the DCU and he has created tons of great fan-favourite moments in his comics that don't feel patronizing or overtly "fan-servicy". On the minus side, his proficiency with the comic book form has never translated into ingenuity and he has never come up with a halfway decent original concept (specifically, a creator-owned comic) nearly two decades into his writing career; he leans way too heavily on shock value, "edginess" and grittiness; his writing (with only a copuple of exceptions) is pretty astoundingly lacking in any depth whatsoever; he often goes for continuity porn over interesting storytelling and, perhaps most crucially considering his position, when he doesn't get a character, he really, really, really doesn't get them - often going for the lazy shorthand of over-emphasising a single facet of their personality over creating a well-rounded character.

His Teen Titans is actually a pretty good encapsulation of this - while his treatment of Bart (and, for that matter, Barry) Allen is a particular egregious example of him at his very worst.

[Assam]

Usually I only bring minis, Pops and Amiibo with me to college, but this year, I decided to bring along the father/son duo we all love.

20170827_115301(2).jpg

[Jekyll]

Usually I only bring minis, Pops and Amiibo with me to college, but this year, I decided to bring along the father/son duo we all love.

20170827_115301(2).jpg

Nice!!! I need to find something like that and add it to my Flash family collection.