Joker as an anti-hero--is that weird?

[kcomics]

I would like to hear your thoughts on this subject, but I think the Joker makes a kick-butt anti-hero when he's utilized that way, in a pseudo sense, in the comics. I'm probably talking pre-new 52, but during the rare occassions when the Clown Prince of Crime teams up with Batman or actually takes out another supervillain with a clever prank weapon and a one-liner, that is entertaining. I guess it could get old if it's overused, but I really think what keeps the Joker fresh are good stories and smart writing, not mass murder, unless it's just funny. Emperor Joker was a pretty good storyline, for instance, but it wasn't realistic at all, just funny, with a chilling look into the clown's obsession with Batman. Batman and Robin Must Die made Joker look like Professor Moriarty to Batman's Sherlock Holmes and presented us with one of those "even bad guys have their standards" moments. I like those "even bad guys have their standards" moments, and I think the Joker was famous for them once upon a time, with quips and comments about never stooping as low as a white-collar criminal and an obsessive need to take out bad guys he considered beneath him, like mafia bosses and drug dealers, if they were stupid enough to come to him for help. I think that is classic Joker and maybe what sets him apart from the rest of the DC super villains.

Also, the Joker was actually funny, once upon a time, opting for murder in the style of cartoon violence. Joker was sort of a proto-Mask character, only he used dark ironic comedy that depended on an impeccable sense of timing.

Sure, the Joker could probably never be utilized as a true anti-hero, but he could definitely play that role as part of a fun prank. The character is famous for being dark, intelligent, unpredictable, and willing to do almost anything for a laugh. The time in one of the Justice League cartoons where Joker was kidnapped by aliens and had to give a comedy performance was a funny concept, and, hey, no one got murdered or maimed. It was still a fun story, though.

I think the writers realized that Joker's gags were funny. That may be why they added some of the slapstick to Harley Quinn's performance. I think I see most of the "good guy" roles that could have been filled by the classic Joker being taken up by Harley--hero / villain team-ups and such. I don't think Harley doing those things has the same kind of impact, though, as Joker would have. For example, it's almost unremarkable when Harley agrees to work with Batman, but it's like "what just happened?" when Batman and the Joker work together.

[kcomics]

I guess maybe I'll never get to see this, but I would like for someone to make a Batman spin-off comprised solely of wacky adventures Joker, Harley, and maybe others related to the clown pair--like Joker's Daughter, Johnny Frost, or Gaggy Gagsworth, get into when they aren't doing what they usually do. I think it would be a good opportunity for DC to showcase some Elseworlds, like Joker and Harley steal a phase oscillator and wind up on Earth 3 or something crazy like that. I really don't think this character is ruined by having wacky adventures; he's a clown after all, and I think the clown part is an important aspect of his character.

It would also be an interesting opportunity to cast the spotlight on other villains, give Joker sort of a "rogues gallery" of his own and set up some new rivalries.

Honestly, it would probably be in the same vein as Teen Titans Go, but it would still be a cute little story for long-time comic book fans.

[Nite-Wing]

DC could take all my money if they put out a Joker anti hero book similar to Sinestro or Luthor.

[geomon]

Didn't Brave and the Bold have some Batman and Joker team ups?

[Thor2014]

No, the Joker is best as a straight-up psycho villain. That said DC should put out a Joker ongoing where he's just terrorizing people. The Joker sells, a Joker ongoing would just be the Joker's crimes from his angle. Shows like Dexter, Breaking Bad and The Sopranos shows that there is a market for villain-themed stories.

[RedQueen]

I prefer Joker as he is but I could see it work with a good writer but his interactions with the batfam probably won't allow it to be believable for it to happen in Gotham. So with his current history still intact, I think it could be maybe achieve by putting him the Suicide Squad and progress from there. It would honestly hard to be pulled off anyways because the Joker's reputation is not something to be shaked off easily in favor of an anti hero story line.

Anyways, I don't think it could get past Jason and Barbara fans without some controversy.

[Katana500]

Anyways, I don't think it could get past Jason and Barbara fans without some controversy.

Even if he became an anti-hero - I doubt Bruce, Jason or Barbara would allow it, they would continue to chase him and try to chuck him in Arkham. Otherwise, it would be a bit out of character for them especially to just let him be an anti-hero in Gotham, after everything he has done.

[Buried Alien]

It's not so weird; if John Milton could portray freaking SATAN as an antihero in PARADISE LOST, then it can't be that hard to portray the Joker in such a manner.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Carabas]

Once upon a time this could have worked.

Once upon a time it was actually tried, but got canceled at 9 issues.



But that was before The Killing Joke, before Death In The Family, before the Joker became more evil than the devil.

[kcomics]

Once upon a time this could have worked.

Once upon a time it was actually tried, but got canceled at 9 issues.




But that was before The Killing Joke, before Death In The Family, before the Joker became more evil than the devil.

Joker can't be more evil than the devil; that's just not possible. Sure, he's a bad guy, but to a certain extent that's part of his appeal. The other part is how he seems to be indisputably insane and therefore not responsible for any of his many crimes. Now, given his kill count is over 2,000 people, that's comedy in itself that the jury would find him insane each and every time after all of those crimes.

I think they could do it without retconning anything. I mean, Harley Quinn killed children, and she became an anti-hero. Joker's done some pretty bad things to Batman, so he would have to do it without letting Batman know, but it would be nice to read a story where Joker, say, goes after the new villains in town because they want to take down Batman, and taking down Batman is his thing.

I also think they could do it if they played up the idea that Joker is psychotic and suffers from delusions, like thinking he's a fictional comicbook character a la Deadpool (Joker has been known for subtle fourth wall breaking in the older comics, anyway. It's really not out of character for the flamboyant comedian.) It could be a little like Laughing Fish, but this time the whole joke would be Joker committing wild crimes, because he believes he's fictional. DC's just afraid to play with this character; that's my opinion, and it's bad to take chracters like this too seriously. Look at what happened when those people tried to imitate Dark Knight. Drop the dark and gritty act with this clown!

Absurdity really works with Joker. Emperor Joker made almost no sense, had the clown killing people left and right, cooking and eating the whole country of China, stealing the anti-life equation from Darkseid, and killing Batman over and over and over again until he broke him. It was still a fun Joker story.

[kcomics]

No, the Joker is best as a straight-up psycho villain. That said DC should put out a Joker ongoing where he's just terrorizing people. The Joker sells, a Joker ongoing would just be the Joker's crimes from his angle. Shows like Dexter, Breaking Bad and The Sopranos shows that there is a market for villain-themed stories.

I think that would work. I would just like them to add a few possible redeeming qualities to the clown and tell so me stories that view him from other perspectives. Once upon a time, he was less of a monster and more of a comedy relief, even when he was out committing crimes. They were funny crimes. I think the writers lost touch with that dark comedic element that made the clown able to practically get away with murder.

For example, it's been a while since I've read a story like Batman and Robin Must Die, where Joker disguises himself to help the former and current Robin find Batman and even delivers some poetic justice to Dr. Hurt at the end for pretending to be Thomas Wayne. Of course, he kills a writer and assumes his identity in the process, but even then he claims he was just following karma, as the writer killed his own wife. Those kinds of stories have Joker doing something good but still staying true to his crazy killer clown character.

The story Slay Ride is also in the same vein, where Joker gets so distracted while arguing with Robin about popular comedies that he lets him escape, even after making the audience think poor Robin's a goner. Joker is much more villainous than heroic here, though--hitting random people with his car, shooting a fast food person for taking too long, and tying Robin to the seat of his car behind the corpses of the owners! The only thing he does that's mildly nice is picking up Robin while he's running from those shooters, but he does it just to maybe kill or torture him, so that doesn't count as a good deed. Still, though, he does it all in such a comical way. Had Snyder written it, it wouldn't have been light enough to be enjoyable; thankfully, though, it was very light-hearted comic. Joker kind of came off as a crazy old uncle with some serious screws loose, not a mass murdering maniac. Well, actually Robin wishes him dead after it's all over, so maybe that's not a good example!

[Batarang]

It's a bad idea. People already complain he's overused just appearing in Batman as a villain. Overused Joker having his own title will really make people get sick of Joker. He won't even have his impact as The big bad in Batman anymore.

[kcomics]

It's a bad idea. People already complain he's overused just appearing in Batman as a villain. Overused Joker having his own title will really make people get sick of Joker. He won't even have his impact as The big bad in Batman anymore.

I think a good story is a good story, and if the Joker stories they write are good and clever, maybe the character won't seem stale.

[borntohula]

Batman Europa has a bit of that. Joker teaming up with Batman.