Is Donna Troy basically useless?

[LordTrump]

Credited because of editor error, barely ever had any real relevance to the actual WW comics, has about 17 origins, all confusing.

[Assam]

Don't think I get this thread.

Yes, Donna was created by accident, and yes, she's had several origins. (17 is hyperbole), buuuuut, she's also become a well developed, 3 dimensional character who's also one of the most badass women in DC, and while not being a major part of the Wonder Woman books, she has spent more time as part of the Titans than nearly every other character, if not EVERY other character.

Donna Troy is awesome. And really, no character is "useless". Any character can be good if they get a good writer.

[darkseidpwns]

Wait what? I know she has multiple different origins but editor accident? I thought she was created to add token representation for the Wonder Woman franchise to Teen Titans. What is this accident?

[Doctor Bifrost]

Wait what? I know she has multiple different origins but editor accident? I thought she was created to add token representation for the Wonder Woman franchise to Teen Titans. What is this accident?

You're right, she was included in the Teen Titans to have A Female Character. Virtually all teams at that time had one - count 'em, one - female character. (The Challengers of the Unknown didn't even quite match that.) As Wonder Woman was The Female Character in the JLA, they used someone they thought of as related to her.

But it seems that the writer and editor thought of Wonder Girl as Wonder Woman's sidekick, analogous to Robin, Kid Flash, Aqualad, and Speedy. But she had never been that in Wonder Woman's comics. Most of the time, she was just Diana as a teenage girl. (So this would be the equivalent of putting the Silver Age Superboy into the Teen Titans.)

Digression: there were these very strange stories in Wonder Woman called "Impossible Tales," in which Wonder Woman, Wonder Girl (specifically Diana as a teenage girl), Wonder Tot (Diana as a child) and Queen Hippolyta has adventures together. The creative team took the dictum that "a person can't be in two places at the same time" as absolute dogma. So they postulated this Amazon machine that was described as being very much like a movie projector: you would get a frame of Wonder Tot, a frame of Wonder Girl, and frame of Wonder Woman - all in different instants so you wouldn't have one person at different places at the same time - but the frames would all be run together like a movie, creating the experience (for the characters and the readers) of them all being together at the same time. They explained this, with visuals, every time, just like Earth-1/Earth-2 was explained with standard visuals in those days.

It was, to be honest, absolutely bizarre. And in most science fiction, time travel lets you get around the "person in two places at the same time" stuff. (For example, check out Heinlein's "All You Zombies" or "By His Bootstraps.") But DC comics was very attached to the idea back them. And the whole thing was just so early Silver Age!

In some other stories in Wonder Woman comics, Wonder Girl seemed to be a younger sister of Wonder Woman, generally having her own adventures in and around Paradise Island. (She had two boyfriends who used to fight over her, Bird Boy and Mer Boy.) But with no origin, or name other than Wonder Girl. It was hard to tell those stories from "Diana as a teenager" stories, except sometimes adult Diana would be in a panel or two.

But none of this was taken into account when Wonder Girl joined the Teen Titans, where she just seemed to be another generic sidekick. Then they started generating origins for her and giving her a name, to distinguish her from Diana. Then after Crisis on Infinite Earths, her then-current origin no longer applied - because she had started her superhero career years before Diana did. New origins got piled on her after that, none of them quite overcoming the weirdness of Wonder Girl first, Wonder Woman second in DCU timeline chronology.

At the end of Infinite Crisis, Wonder Woman was restored to her position as starting off at the same time as Superman and Batman, and being a founding member of the JLA. But before we could see how this impacted Donna's origin and career, things swerved into The New 52 (horrible origin for Donna, and plot threads - like her being the goddess of Fate, whatever implications that might have - undeveloped). And now into Rebirth. So we still don't know how it'll all shake out.

I think TPTB have gotten emotionally attached to the idea that "Donna's origin will never make sense." So they don't seem to be taking this opportunity to simplify and clarify it, and give her a strong, sisterly relationship to Diana. A mistake in my opinion.

But that's just me.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Answer: Nope.

She is capable of being, and has been at times, a great character, and was part of what made various incarnations of the Titans exceedingly popular for a long time.

They have had trouble giving her a clear and useful origin, and I hope they use the opportunity of Rebirth to finally get it right. (Although, reading the Titans Annual, my expectations are low.)

[Mel Dyer]

Donna Troy is the She-Hulk of the DCU.

[Vinsanity]

She doesn't really have a stand out personality like WW and WG. She's just there.

[darkseidpwns]

You're right, she was included in the Teen Titans to have A Female Character. Virtually all teams at that time had one - count 'em, one - female character. (The Challengers of the Unknown didn't even quite match that.) As Wonder Woman was The Female Character in the JLA, they used someone they thought of as related to her.

But it seems that the writer and editor thought of Wonder Girl as Wonder Woman's sidekick, analogous to Robin, Kid Flash, Aqualad, and Speedy. But she had never been that in Wonder Woman's comics. Most of the time, she was just Diana as a teenage girl. (So this would be the equivalent of putting the Silver Age Superboy into the Teen Titans.)

Digression: there were these very strange stories in Wonder Woman called "Impossible Tales," in which Wonder Woman, Wonder Girl (specifically Diana as a teenage girl), Wonder Tot (Diana as a child) and Queen Hippolyta has adventures together. The creative team took the dictum that "a person can't be in two places at the same time" as absolute dogma. So they postulated this Amazon machine that was described as being very much like a movie projector: you would get a frame of Wonder Tot, a frame of Wonder Girl, and frame of Wonder Woman - all in different instants so you wouldn't have one person at different places at the same time - but the frames would all be run together like a movie, creating the experience (for the characters and the readers) of them all being together at the same time. They explained this, with visuals, every time, just like Earth-1/Earth-2 was explained with standard visuals in those days.

It was, to be honest, absolutely bizarre. And in most science fiction, time travel lets you get around the "person in two places at the same time" stuff. (For example, check out Heinlein's "All You Zombies" or "By His Bootstraps.") But DC comics was very attached to the idea back them. And the whole thing was just so early Silver Age!

In some other stories in Wonder Woman comics, Wonder Girl seemed to be a younger sister of Wonder Woman, generally having her own adventures in and around Paradise Island. (She had two boyfriends who used to fight over her, Bird Boy and Mer Boy.) But with no origin, or name other than Wonder Girl. It was hard to tell those stories from "Diana as a teenager" stories, except sometimes adult Diana would be in a panel or two.

But none of this was taken into account when Wonder Girl joined the Teen Titans, where she just seemed to be another generic sidekick. Then they started generating origins for her and giving her a name, to distinguish her from Diana. Then after Crisis on Infinite Earths, her then-current origin no longer applied - because she had started her superhero career years before Diana did. New origins got piled on her after that, none of them quite overcoming the weirdness of Wonder Girl first, Wonder Woman second in DCU timeline chronology.

At the end of Infinite Crisis, Wonder Woman was restored to her position as starting off at the same time as Superman and Batman, and being a founding member of the JLA. But before we could see how this impacted Donna's origin and career, things swerved into The New 52 (horrible origin for Donna, and plot threads - like her being the goddess of Fate, whatever implications that might have - undeveloped). And now into Rebirth. So we still don't know how it'll all shake out.

I think TPTB have gotten emotionally attached to the idea that "Donna's origin will never make sense." So they don't seem to be taking this opportunity to simplify and clarify it, and give her a strong, sisterly relationship to Diana. A mistake in my opinion.

But that's just me.

Wondertot LMAO. But everything about Donna leaves me appalled.

[brettc1]

I like Donna Troy.

[CRaymond]

She doesn't really have a stand out personality like WW and WG. She's just there.

This is ultimately where I end up too.

Diana is ENFJ, Hippolyta is ENTJ, Phillipus is ISFJ. That's the royal family.

Clearly, the best Cassie would be ESTP. The best Artemis would be INTP.

I feel stupid for not seeing it, but the best Donna would be INFJ. The essential difference between Donna and Diana is scale and depth. You know how Diana says she's great at love but sucks at romance? Donna nails it. She understands exclusivity and devotion.

[Phoenixx9]

Don't think I get this thread.

Yes, Donna was created by accident, and yes, she's had several origins. (17 is hyperbole), buuuuut, she's also become a well developed, 3 dimensional character who's also one of the most badass women in DC, and while not being a major part of the Wonder Woman books, she has spent more time as part of the Titans than nearly every other character, if not EVERY other character.

Donna Troy is awesome. And really, no character is "useless". Any character can be good if they get a good writer.

This.

Also, every character is loved by someone and may be their favorite. Donna is far from useless.

[Vanguard-01]

Nope. Donna's not useless. No character is useless in the hands of a writer who actually gives a crap about them.

[sakuyamons]

This.

Also, every character is loved by someone and may be their favorite. Donna is far from useless.

I agree. Donna rocks.

[sakuyamons]

Double post

[donnafan]

I disagree with the thought that Donna Troy is "useless." To me, it's like saying Nightwing is useless because he's a Batman progeny or Wally West Flash is useless for the same reason. In my opinion, having these characters displays the "generational" aspect of their mentors. Over the span of the 60+ years that these characters appeared together in Teen Titans, they have grown from being more than the teen-aged kid-sidekicks and developed into characters in their own right. For example, Dick stepped out of Batman's shadow during the Judas Contract when he took on his new identity. With Donna, under the care of several writers such as Wolfman, she has grown to become the heart of the original Titans team. Displaying both leadership, strength and empathetic confidant for her teammates. I've always thought of Donna as the more relatable WW; she held a job as a photographer, got married, even had a child. Donna also came to man's world at a much younger age than her sister and quickly acclimated - being portrayed as a typical teenager in the original Teen Titans run. In New Teen Titans, she was the girl-next-door that every straight guy had a crush on and her friendship with Kory was a key dynamic to that group. I totally agree with earlier post that under a good writer, she can be a compelling character. I feel that writers should focus on giving her a compelling story arc and stop adding confusing complex layers to her origin. There's more stories to tell about the character than where she came from.