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  1. #91
    Not a girls name Jan Bentzen's Avatar
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    If people can accept Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury - anything goes

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Bentzen View Post
    If people can accept Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury - anything goes
    Samuel Jackson's version of Nick Fury was based on a beloved interpretation of Nick Fury in the Ultimates comics. People loved that version of Nick Fury so much he even ended up in the regular marvel universe. Heck, I loved that version too!

    Daimio has always been (and will always be) Daimio in the comic universe. It's actually very easy to adapt him faithfully. There is no reason to do it wrong. None. It boggles the mind!

  3. #93
    Incredible Member Kees_L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angilasman View Post
    This set off a chain of thought in me. Smidgen off topic but here goes:

    It's kinda hard to transport yourself back in time, but GDT's Hellboy movie came out the same year the Arcudi/Davis BPRD series began. GDT took liberties with the material, fleshed out characters personalities and such by bringing his own interpretation to them, and it's important to remember that up to that point it was pretty much all Mignola written and drawn minis and short stories. I adore those stories, but Mike's talent was in creating visual poetry, striking images and mood so thick you could cut it with a knife, but how much of the rest of that world, especially all the side characters, were fleshed out? Besides Hellboy and to a lesser extent Kate and Roger a whole heckuva lot of stuff was pretty lightly sketched. GDT had to put meat on the bones in order for it to work as a live action story, and he started writing that screenplay years earlier when there was even less material to draw from (what, three trade paperbacks worth?).
    The main angle I feel most Hellboy stories take is presenting Hellboy and/or the B.P.R.D. amid all this piling up very believable yet hardly conceivable amounts of (back-)story potential, which however will not be explored in the story at hand. Characters both as cases seem to hardly evolve around casefiles or Hellboy's agenda but instead the continuous point to how much takes place away from the reader is kept up for apparently most of Mignola's writing.

    I disagree GDT would have needed to put meat on the bone just characterizing-wise, but I do feel that for the movie storytelling GDT would have been veered to give his movie audience more of an opportunity to have stuff happen on-camera (mostly along the Liz/Hellboy-relationship), because in movies the idea of asterisks or flipping to other pages or other stories would hardly work as well as in books.
    What you might call this fragmented back-story-versus-main-adventure seems as much visible in Mignola's stories, as much as RE Howards' or Conan Doyles' works for instance.

    I think the B.P.R.D. as its own standalone title took off as of 2005 and amid it as a standalone title any team Bureau stuff obviously wouldn't have to be side-story as much. I believe interviews or hindsight comments suggest that John Arcudi was specifically brought on board for pursueing Mignola's story matter more in a B.P.R.D. team manner, because Arcudi could and because Mike Mignola his interests creatively would be elsewhere at that point.
    Plus the B.P.R.D. as a (second) main standalone title increases the potential for the organic way of storytelling which most of the Hell-Verse seems to evolve around. Like how these comics (and books) are hardly as neatly organised or as stubbornly linear as for instance Big Two superhero books. Thankfully so.

    I can only guess how liberating it would be for a creator to allow or entrust close colleagues with such a task of further fleshing out stuff which otherwise would never be.
    And as such I find it completely logical that Mike Mignola for a movie would want an inspiring movie person like GDT to get the chance and be creative with it.
    Which worked for the first movie but even after seeing the second one premiering I didn't quite allow myself to realise how detrimental I was finding the Helltwins angle to be.
    I looked at the second movie as an attempt to translate or morph more of a folklore angle both as a BPRD standalone title angle into things, but at the end of the 2nd movie all that seems to remain angle-wise is dreading those damned twins that would never have a life or reason to be!

    I feel already thankful this new movie is particularly veered to be presenting captivating edge-of-your-seat (pulpy hence rated R) storytelling quite particularly along the vein of the Mignola comics, or at least this would be my hope.
    Last edited by Kees_L; 08-23-2017 at 09:01 AM.
    SLINT / Mike Mignola / Walt Whitman / Arthur Louriť / Dr. Pepper

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred25_ca View Post
    Samuel Jackson's version of Nick Fury was based on a beloved interpretation of Nick Fury in the Ultimates comics. People loved that version of Nick Fury so much he even ended up in the regular marvel universe. Heck, I loved that version too!

    Daimio has always been (and will always be) Daimio in the comic universe. It's actually very easy to adapt him faithfully. There is no reason to do it wrong. None. It boggles the mind!
    What some people keep ignoring is that A) companies are CONTINUALLY whitewashing Asian characters. Can we NOT do that? and B) It comes from a history of white men hogging most of the roles. White women, blacks of both sexes, Asian actors of both sexes, Latinx of both sexes and Native American actors of both sexes get far fewer characters to play than white men.

    So, no, Samuel L. Jackson does NOT make a good excuse.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwangung View Post
    What some people keep ignoring is that A) companies are CONTINUALLY whitewashing Asian characters. Can we NOT do that? and B) It comes from a history of white men hogging most of the roles. White women, blacks of both sexes, Asian actors of both sexes, Latinx of both sexes and Native American actors of both sexes get far fewer characters to play than white men.

    So, no, Samuel L. Jackson does NOT make a good excuse.
    Plus, the new Hellboy reboot has so much hate going against it. Most diehard fans of the movies who don't know the comics are incredibly savage against it. The people behind this reboot cannot make these kind of mistakes. Before the Daimio misfire, they had been trying REALLY hard to convince people this was a worthwhile reboot. They need this to be pitch perfect or else it will fail. Imo, until the Jojovich announcement, it had been incredible news after incredible news. Now, i'm not so sure anymore...

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred25_ca View Post
    Plus, the new Hellboy reboot has so much hate going against it. Most diehard fans of the movies who don't know the comics are incredibly savage against it. The people behind this reboot cannot make these kind of mistakes. Before the Daimio misfire, they had been trying REALLY hard to convince people this was a worthwhile reboot. They need this to be pitch perfect or else it will fail. Imo, until the Jojovich announcement, it had been incredible news after incredible news. Now, i'm not so sure anymore...
    People had an issue with Jovovich? Why?

  7. #97
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    Milla Jojovich did some good work early on, especially with Luc Besson (Fifth Element and Joan of Arc), but unfortunately she's been associated with the Resident Evil franchise for more than a decade now. I don't remember the last time I saw her in a good movie. She's not a bad actress, but she's certainly not on the level of Ian McShane, nor was she in a hit tv series like David Harbour just was. For some, she's a negative choice on an already controversial reboot. For others, she's a great addition. But unlike the other two actors, she has certainly divided people. In my case, because of the strong casting that had happened before she came into the project, I was giving the team the benefit of the doubt. Now with Daimio, I'm not so sure anymore. We'll see.
    Last edited by fred25_ca; 08-24-2017 at 07:42 AM.

  8. #98
    Incredible Member Kees_L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwangung View Post
    What some people keep ignoring is that A) companies are CONTINUALLY whitewashing Asian characters. Can we NOT do that? and B) It comes from a history of white men hogging most of the roles. White women, blacks of both sexes, Asian actors of both sexes, Latinx of both sexes and Native American actors of both sexes get far fewer characters to play than white men.
    You know, if I'd hear some Hollywood big shot movie director say: "Hey I'm a big shot so I wanna see my Merchant Of Venice be like he'd be from there!" I'd think such would have to be meant acting-wise, more rather than literally. Since a well performed acting role won't hinge on genetics or descent alone.

    Concerning the Daimio casting I agree with you that I'd personally see no reason not to employ at least an Asian or believably Japanese actor, since there'd seem such talented ones out there, (my personal favorites being "Beat" Takeshi Kitano, or Hiroyuki Sanada provided he'd get a horrible military haircut), but it's still perfectly possible these actual casting people saw good reasons to cast the way they did.



    I presume that either way the parts of both Hellboy, Nimue as well as Cpt. Daimio will involve a serious amount of motion capture or CGI, likely as much as Beowulf 2.0 so to speak. I mean, a demon, a witchy heathen goddess and a deceased revenant with his face half gone... I hope the movie is gonna feel like a play or old B&W pioneering-oldschool-horror type of movie with a focus on storytelling and mood conveying more rather than modern-ness, so like a Mignola comic essentially. If the fluffy boyish Camden Town rapping geezer can help with that or any of the cast and creative team as-is, then so be it .
    Last edited by Kees_L; 08-24-2017 at 11:23 AM. Reason: adding the Takeshi K Wiki pic
    SLINT / Mike Mignola / Walt Whitman / Arthur Louriť / Dr. Pepper

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kees_L View Post
    Concerning the Daimio casting I agree with you that I'd personally see no reason not to employ at least an Asian or believably Japanese actor, since there'd seem such talented ones out there, (my personal favorites being Takeshi "Beat" Kitano, or Hiroyuki Sanada provided he'd get a horrible military haircut), but it's still perfectly possible these actual casting people saw good reasons to cast the way they did.
    Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.

    Not sure what you'd dozen+ times in the last decade, though....

  10. #100
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    I'm sorry, but Kitano is, imo, a horrible choice for Daimio. He's nearly 70 and barely speaks English. I love Beat Takashi, but there is nothing about him that screams Daimio. We need someone who speaks fluent English and is in his 40's. As for special effects, there is no need for motion capture. We've had burned and disfigured characters in movies for decades now and it often looks great. They just need to hire a good FX team and it will look just like in the comics. There is no need for CGI. And with Neil Marshall at the helm, I doubt we'll get CGI characters. He's way too smart for that.
    Last edited by fred25_ca; 08-24-2017 at 12:09 PM.

  11. #101
    Incredible Member Kees_L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred25_ca View Post
    I love Beat Takashi, but there is nothing about him that screams Daimio. We need someone who speaks fluent English and is in his 40's.
    We? You perhaps, but what I'd need in acting out Daimio is someone defeated, someone engrained with the sense that discipline and composure would pay but who got cursed and murdered by a secret cult burdening him with never proving able at discipline or endurance of any kind no more. For me the point to Daimio is that he's an impossible monster, doomed to never bring saviour to anyone or anything (except perhaps one other very special monster).

    Quote Originally Posted by fred25_ca View Post
    As for special effects, there is no need for motion capture. We've had burned and disfigured characters in movies for decades now and it often looks great.
    I hope this Hellboy movie could stand out as breaking the mold of mainstream "actionpacked" quippy superhero flicks, which apart from one or two exceptions hardly ever look or feel great, would be my opinion. I'd love more of an old pulpy horror movie, but I'd think that for having for instance Daimio's gaping and ruptured left cheek to look in any way buff or unsettling enough, any tasteful computerized aid would come in handy rather much.

    What I can get excited about is the idea that the gentlemanly Bruttenholm will be in this movie, likely as facing a younger Hellboy, eventhough the professor presumably won't ever be meeting Daimio in the flesh and potentially Nimue neither. On the other hand he might know of the Blood Queen, as well as of the Crimson Lotus and the weird-ass monkey-spook cult that'll come to bite Daimio in the rear. It seems to me the story may become to be heavily layered and fragmented and epic if you ask me.
    Last edited by Kees_L; 08-25-2017 at 10:23 AM.
    SLINT / Mike Mignola / Walt Whitman / Arthur Louriť / Dr. Pepper

  12. #102
    All-New Member Gruagach's Avatar
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    Even setting the race thing aside, this is just bad casting. He'd be a better choice for Abe. It definitely gives me the vibe that the director doesn't get the character at all. I really want this movie to be good, but it's gonna be pretty upsetting if the characters aren't like their comic counterparts. I like the Del Toro movies but I'm really not interested in seeing yet another unfaithful adaptation of these characters.
    I had such high hopes for this after the casting of Harbour.

  13. #103
    Magical Witch Alise's Avatar
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    I have comics, which is more than enough for me. If this was a mini animated series, I would be interested.

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  15. #105
    Mighty Member Angilasman's Avatar
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    ^Kudos to him for dropping out! Hopefully they'll be more on the mark with the eventual casting of Ben.

    ... but, I must say the fact he was cast in the first place still raises a lot of red flags about the people calling the shots of this movie.

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