X-Men "Gifted" TV show discussion and speculation

[juan678]

[jmc247]

Regarding your last point, I actually disagree as far as how I’d like to see them
Portrayed . As of the end of season 1 I am Not seeing the noble knights angle at all so I don’t see them being portrayed that way in season 2. Sure I expect some complexity but not enough to make them an equally viable “good guy” side. I’m guessing they’ll just be like magneto and his brotherhood, extremists for their cause... With the remnants of the mutant underground fighting a two front war (against humans who hate them but also protecting humans from the hellfire club, just like Xavier vs magneto in the good ole days).

And frankly I’m fine with that. Unless they do some major moral shifting, that group ended season 1 as terrorists essentially.

Then again I purposefully avoid lots of promos and spoilers so there could already be info out discredits my belief. If so I apologize.

Some of them have what some might argue as reasonable or positive goals. spoilers:

As in a mutant homeland

end of spoilers, but others simply want to see the world burn, accrue power or kill as many humans as possible.

Based on the interviews it is much like you saw in the finale with some changes as Reeva seems to be in favor of bringing the war to humanity. It looks like Lorna will continue to be not hot about the idea. Esme it looks like will be coming down on the Reeva side of things at least early on (and trying to manipulate things to that effect).

Hellfire itself looks ripe for a fictionalization or big power plays down the road between those who basically want power, the world to burn and as many humans as possible to die and those that have a code of honor though don't abide by the MU's tactics and have semi realistic goals.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Yes I agree jmc. That's where I think Twist fits in, as sort of an outlier in Hellfire with a possible splintering. Although again that might be TOO complicated for this show to pull off we'll have to see.

I just hope people can resist the temptation to divide everything neatly into Good vs Evil....

That's also why I'm glad there are the Morlocks as a 3rd mutant group, which can lead into a slightly different kind of analysis in terms of activity vs passivity and so forth not just purely "Are you good or bad" because those are SUCH subjective notions and yet people once they attach them to a group, get emotionally committed about it.....

To me it's more about trying to understand or get the perspective of the different characters/groups, and how compelling their self-professed rationale is for me. I try to not just go into these things with blanket sweeping presumptions (although I understand why people do, a lot of the marketing and more surface-level visuals and so on can suggest such things)

I guess like ask yourself, would it be more good in say Nazi Germany if you were a member of a political party that was "moderate" and just tried to use the german parliament to oppose Hitler's rise. Or would it be more useful to be involved in a guerrilla movement to actively seek to depose him? That's sort of the question for a universe like this show presents.

There is also the concept that "terrorists" are basically the "smaller army" in a conflict, or the way a stateless people can try to fight back against a much more powerful adversary. "Terrorism" is what any stronger or currently ruling group would label acts of resistance to them. But if your perspective is in favor of the less powerful group you wouldn't consider their acts as just "terrorism" you would see it as "fighting for freedom and a better tomorrow" and so on. It's ultimately about perspective and who you are sympathetic with, more so than the actual actions undertaken in a conflict.

It would be extremely nice for a silly superhero TV show to try to get its audience provoked enough to think about these topics. I'm not gonna claim it WILL happen but I think it COULD. This show has a lot of potential

[jmc247]

Yes I agree jmc. That's where I think Twist fits in, as sort of an outlier in Hellfire with a possible splintering. Although again that might be TOO complicated for this show to pull off we'll have to see.

I just hope people can resist the temptation to divide everything neatly into Good vs Evil....

Twist is one of many of the Hellfire Club that looks like they will have what the show will demonstrate to be bad motivations or bad goals. Revenge is a bad motivation, wanting to cause anarchy is a bad motivation, being prejudice against humans is a bad motivation. Bad goals are pretty apparent with wanting personal political power, wanting to see the world burn, wanting to wipe out humanity or dominate them.

Team Hellfire is going to be full of characters with bad motivations and bad goals... you can keep a checklist and ask yourself what each will be motivated by and what each want to accomplish some of which we won't know until the show comes out.

The Inner Circle so far seems more violent and extreme pound for pound then the early 1990s-2000 Acolytes, but they are also dealing with a government that is far nastier.

Could definitely feed into the folks who view them as "monstrous", i.e. will fuel their conviction they are somehow controlling Polaris to do their bidding. Myself I severely doubt that though.

I think you need to ready yourself for them hard playing up the idea in the first few episodes that Andy and Lorna are dupes and victims of the Reeva and Esme. Though in the end I believe Lorna (knows most of not all) of what she has allied with and it comes out of a recognition that revolutions require moral compromises.

The first compromise that made the United States was Jefferson being forced to delete most of his attacks on slavery from the first versions of the Declaration of Independence or the Deep South wouldn't join. There were alot of other subsequent moral compromises including allying with one tyrant (a French one) who was looking for revenge on the British to provide the resources for the war. In terms of tactics one can read Jefferson's writings on burning down British cities in reciprocity for American cities burned among other things to know how amoral these things can end up.

Reeva will have her goals and ax to grind. For Lorna if she really wants to achieve her own goal she needs to tolerate allying with people she dislikes or hates, but are useful and I expect them to play things up that way at least early on. My assumption is they are going to make it seem as though its a clear cut case of Reeva and Esme are using Lorna, but for a discerning eye and perhaps with time it will be more apparent its a two sided game.

I guess like ask yourself, would it be more good in say Nazi Germany if you were a member of a political party that was "moderate" and just tried to use the german parliament to oppose Hitler's rise. Or would it be more useful to be involved in a guerrilla movement to actively seek to depose him? That's sort of the question for a universe like this show presents.

The finale of last season provided a situation unlike the X-Men usually do where there is a bad government official allied to a bad industrialist with genocidal plans, but a good governmental official or officials who will work with the X-Men to block their genocidal plans. There was no good government arm with any teeth nor did the MU seem to have the political resources to anything about it. A big question comes to do they move mutant politics back towards a 60s civil rights analogy in which case the Inner Circle has absolutely no leg to stand on and the MU are fully in the right or keep it more akin to 30s Germany.

[Tazpocalapse]

I have a question? The character Reeva shares the nae of a X-men character that was the black queen of Shinobi Shaw version of the Hell Fire Club. I wonder is she a concept of that character?

[Divine Spark]

I guess Fox didn’t really abandoned the Hellfire Club TV show series they talked about back in 2015.

[jmc247]

I have a question? The character Reeva shares the nae of a X-men character that was the black queen of Shinobi Shaw version of the Hell Fire Club. I wonder is she a concept of that character?

Yes, its mostly the basis of the character.

I guess Fox didn’t really abandoned the Hellfire Club TV show series they talked about back in 2015.

That was supposed to be set in the 1960s, but there was rumored to be alot of problems there including too big a cast. The current set up is a workable idea for political intrigue and power plays the kind that keep viewers from running while having a strong social commentary.

I do worry about the cast being too big, but as talked about in the interview below which is broken into several parts by actor they are doing things differently this season and focusing on small numbers of characters doing things together like missions, etc. vs group everything.

[Soulsword323]

The Gifted's Twitter emoji returns! Photo credit goes to The Gifted Wiki Twitter account.

[juan678]

[juan678]

[AbnormallyNormal]

I guess Fox didn’t really abandoned the Hellfire Club TV show series they talked about back in 2015.

Yep in many ways they pulled a bait and switch and pretended this show was about a family forced to go on the run but it's pretty clearly morphed into "look at how awesome and badass the Hellfire Club is" lol

At least for a lot of fans myself definitely included

Twist is one of many of the Hellfire Club that looks like they will have what the show will demonstrate to be bad motivations or bad goals. Revenge is a bad motivation, wanting to cause anarchy is a bad motivation, being prejudice against humans is a bad motivation. Bad goals are pretty apparent with wanting personal political power, wanting to see the world burn, wanting to wipe out humanity or dominate them.

Team Hellfire is going to be full of characters with bad motivations and bad goals... you can keep a checklist and ask yourself what each will be motivated by and what each want to accomplish some of which we won't know until the show comes out.

The Inner Circle so far seems more violent and extreme pound for pound then the early 1990s-2000 Acolytes, but they are also dealing with a government that is far nastier.



I think you need to ready yourself for them hard playing up the idea in the first few episodes that Andy and Lorna are dupes and victims of the Reeva and Esme. Though in the end I believe Lorna (knows most of not all) of what she has allied with and it comes out of a recognition that revolutions require moral compromises.

The first compromise that made the United States was Jefferson being forced to delete most of his attacks on slavery from the first versions of the Declaration of Independence or the Deep South wouldn't join. There were alot of other subsequent moral compromises including allying with one tyrant (a French one) who was looking for revenge on the British to provide the resources for the war. In terms of tactics one can read Jefferson's writings on burning down British cities in reciprocity for American cities burned among other things to know how amoral these things can end up.

Reeva will have her goals and ax to grind. For Lorna if she really wants to achieve her own goal she needs to tolerate allying with people she dislikes or hates, but are useful and I expect them to play things up that way at least early on. My assumption is they are going to make it seem as though its a clear cut case of Reeva and Esme are using Lorna, but for a discerning eye and perhaps with time it will be more apparent its a two sided game.



The finale of last season provided a situation unlike the X-Men usually do where there is a bad government official allied to a bad industrialist with genocidal plans, but a good governmental official or officials who will work with the X-Men to block their genocidal plans. There was no good government arm with any teeth nor did the MU seem to have the political resources to anything about it. A big question comes to do they move mutant politics back towards a 60s civil rights analogy in which case the Inner Circle has absolutely no leg to stand on and the MU are fully in the right or keep it more akin to 30s Germany.

A few things. I think we can see bad motivations or bad goals among members of the MU and Morlocks as well as the HFC.

The Purifiers and SS are still going to be the main adversary for most fans watching the show, not HFC. HFC will just be a "harder approach" to fighting the overall enemy of every mutant side.

I don't mind them tricking the audience into thinking Lorna and Andy are victims of scheming Cuckoos/Reeva etc as long as they dispose of the notion over the course of the season fairly conclusively.

It's going to be an interesting balancing act with Lorna being subservient to Reeva Payge. On the one hand, Grace Byers has a lot of fans who will watch to see her be awesome and they won't want her to be toppled or lose her spot as the leader. On the other hand, Lorna is much more a central character to the show overall than she is.

There's a lot I can say regarding your historical interpretations on the foundation of the USA and moral compromise, like I think you contradict yourself a few places actually. But that's wildly offtopic and would require very lengthy posts with , well... footnotes probably.

I also disagree that in a 60s analogy there is no reason to be fighting back against injustice using anything other than slow gradual rescue missions one at a time. Because that's what the MU does on the show. They do very piecemeal very incremental very localized rescue operations. What are the stats on how overall effective that is? Does the MU ever do anything like try to actually change public views? No they don't, they just hide. Morlocks will hide, but even more so, and ONLY hide. That's my point.... Hellfire Club's actions can be used to build up even more anti-mutant propaganda sure, but that doesn't mean they won't be more effective over time. Particularly if the HFC's end-goal really is the establishment of a mutant nation. There isn't anything innately genocidal, loony, etc about that really.

Again to me I view it as a yin-yang symbiosis thing. I think both MU and HFC have their virtues and vices, but they each contribute and even working separately they can perform a "push-pull" type of a force on the overall society.

[jmc247]

IGN interview about season 2 and new photos.

Great interview.

Also on Twitter show your allegiance to a side and get a unreleased video of the season.

https://mobile.twitter.com/thegiftedonfox?lang=en

[juan678]

[juan678]

[juan678]