X-Men "Gifted" TV show discussion and speculation

[salarta]

So a quick note.

If the show isn't canceled, I'd say be prepared for the chance that either the show won't get as much promo and support as it's had, or Marvel will plan on introducing new characters and removing/demoting notable existing ones.

I'm basing this largely on current activity out of Marvel with the comics and merch. None of the characters from Gifted have a big presence in the X-Men comics/merch lately. Specifically, Prisoner X kinda betrays this attitude. They took an idea from season 1 Gifted's use of Polaris, made Bishop the lead, and made Lorna a supporting character. If Marvel planned to be more supportive of Gifted, you'd expect them to have Polaris as the lead of Prisoner X to make a bigger attempt at drawing in the show's audience.

This could've also been just one reason why Lorna wasn't handled as well in season 2 (as I've seen other people say; I didn't watch it so I don't know). Diminishing audience attachment lessens the blow when getting rid of or demoting a character.

P.S. Remember this is not a statement of guaranteed outcomes. It's possibilities and hypotheticals to be prepared for.

[jmc247]

Episode 16: Live .4 18-49. Live+7: 2.939 million viewers, 0.85 adults 18-49 rating

Episode 15: Live .5 18-49. Live+7: 2.905 million viewers, 0.84 adults 18-49 rating

That is it for ratings of season two.

[Jesse-James]

It were 2 great seasons. Sad that it's over now.

[Phoenixx9]

Episode 16: Live .4 18-49. Live+7: 2.939 million viewers, 0.85 adults 18-49 rating

Episode 15: Live .5 18-49. Live+7: 2.905 million viewers, 0.84 adults 18-49 rating

That is it for ratings of season two.

How are those ratings considered?

I know it may be early, but any word if Season 3 has been approved?

[jmc247]

How are those ratings considered?

I know it may be early, but any word if Season 3 has been approved?

Those ratings are not anything network TV is going to renew. The ratings this season, especially among the second half the season outright collapsed. I have no idea the odds that a streaming could pick it up, but the show at least in terms of its audience took a hit (but a survivable one) then came up a bit in eps 6, 8, 9 and then full on cratered with the last 6 episodes.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Those ratings are not anything network TV is going to renew. The ratings this season, especially among the second half the season outright collapsed. I have no idea the odds that a streaming could pick it up, but the show at least in terms of its audience took a hit (but a survivable one) then came up a bit in eps 6, 8, 9 and then full on cratered with the last 6 episodes.

If we take the optimistic view that it was FOX holding the writers back and forcing them into dumbing down and overly lightening up all their themes, then I'd be more motivated for a season 3 on some type of streaming service

But I have no idea if that's even true, maybe it was really what the writers wanted to do all along and they simply did incredible series of teases and misdirections that all amounted to absolutely nothing and served no purpose

I do feel bad for some of the folks involved I sort of "got to know them" over time through their social media posts

Especially Emma Dumont and Natalie Alyn Lind seemed genuinely enthusiastic about the show, I get the feeling Natalie was VERY ready for Lauren to become a darker character. So I don't blame them for what happened obviously.

Some of the other folks involved like Sean Teale well... different story

Also seemed like Skyler Samuels was just there "doing a job" and didn't really place her heart into the series very much, but she WAS really good anyway

It's too bad, and it just makes me sad because this show was incredibly inspirational and downright brilliant when it was at its highs

[Grey]

If we take the optimistic view that it was FOX holding the writers back and forcing them into dumbing down and overly lightening up all their themes, then I'd be more motivated for a season 3 on some type of streaming service

But I have no idea if that's even true, maybe it was really what the writers wanted to do all along and they simply did incredible series of teases and misdirections that all amounted to absolutely nothing and served no purpose

I do feel bad for some of the folks involved I sort of "got to know them" over time through their social media posts

Especially Emma Dumont and Natalie Alyn Lind seemed genuinely enthusiastic about the show, I get the feeling Natalie was VERY ready for Lauren to become a darker character. So I don't blame them for what happened obviously.

Some of the other folks involved like Sean Teale well... different story

Also seemed like Skyler Samuels was just there "doing a job" and didn't really place her heart into the series very much, but she WAS really good anyway

It's too bad, and it just makes me sad because this show was incredibly inspirational and downright brilliant when it was at its highs

That’s interesting about samuels because I think she was the most consistently well-acted on the show. I don’t keep up with social media but I’d have predicted she be more like Dumont and lynd.

I think it’s great to have passion for a role but seeing it as “doing a job” Doesn’t necessarily detract, it seems. Either way I like how well she did.

[jmc247]

Samuels with Esme had arguably the most consistently written character. It’s not hard to act consistent when you are by in large playing the same character.

Emma Dumont wasn’t playing the same character in season one and two. I didn’t even feel she was playing the same character in the first half of season two and the second half. The Gifted writers perhaps on their own accord, perhaps pushed by Marvel radically reinvented the character into an irritating cowardly and rather annoying character who made it hard for me to watch the second season.

Complaints aside with Esme that she was ok with killing this guy, but not that guy which actually is consistent with how people in general think I would say Matt Nix put a lot of love into the character. The fact that his daughter is named Esme as he said in interviews might have had something to do with that.

Samuels also isn’t a method actor and therefore doesn’t become the character the way Dumont does.

In terms of this season I believe the writers hedged in trying to both write it to their old audience while trying to appeal to what they thought their new Disney masters would like so they ended up with a muddle. They split the difference between a Disney/CW type show in case the show might end up on a streaming service and a Fox show.

[Theleviathan]

Is any of this speculation that Fox and Marvel or Disney were pushing hte writers into corners come with any evidence? Even weak evidence?

Occam's Razor tells us the explanation is rather simple: These are bad writers. Probably a bad producer too, nothing I've read Matt Nix say pre-season 2 lines up well with what actually happened.

[jmc247]

Is any of this speculation that Fox and Marvel or Disney were pushing hte writers into corners come with any evidence? Even weak evidence?

Occam's Razor tells us the explanation is rather simple: These are bad writers. Probably a bad producer too, nothing I've read Matt Nix say pre-season 2 lines up well with what actually happened.

I can't speak for AbnormallyNormal on his view in that area.

My personal feeling is The Gifted writers bought their own hype after season 1. It was a bad sign when they put their own scripts into the floor boards of the premiere. I actually think Reeva was probably Fox's idea. Fox TV likes to recycle their actors and actresses who have at least semi decent chops and I am sure they offered her to The Gifted writers as she finished up on Empire.

I think one particular fan of Reeva/the actress thought I was against her. I am not against her nor the character, but I am against the role they gave the character. They gutted the idea behind the Hellfire Club and turned it into the Brotherhood with everyone including Lorna and Esme who are supposed to be in terror of her. But, I didn't buy it as the actress didn't pull it off and the character didn't have the power to make it believable when Lorna could pith her through the throat with a penny at any given moment or any number of things.

They could have using the Hellfire Club format had several queens all working together or in opposition at times given how the Hellfire Club works.

Generally bringing on a new character wasn't the problem. It was how they destroyed the Hellfire Club and the characters in it to service this new character who didn't catch fire to put it mildly. The foot soldier role negatively impacted Esme, but really castrated Lorna the first half the season and it with the baby turned her into the Inner Circle's season one Catlin Strucker. This is a character/actress who had been making newspaper covers across the country and even overseas in the Fall of 2007 including USA Today which is something most shows could only dream about these days is suddenly is spending almost all her time complaining, in fear of Reeva, or being Andy's surrogate mom. And, that was by far the better of the two halves of the season for the character.

The second half of the season reeked of writer regrets and hedging in case Fox nixed a season 3. First off people online sided with the IC/Hellfire Club on levels I don't think the writers were expecting, but it was their own fault because the Underground didn't seem to do jackall for mutants and seemed to spend most of their time bitching about what the Morlocks were doing or trying to hunt down the Inner Circle and trying to 'save' Andy and Lorna who at that point in time were mainly just freeing mutants from confinement.

So, at the mid season point they try to shift the sympathy all to the Underground side by turning the IC into exactly what Matt Nix said they wouldn't be. Then in order to prove Lorna is good not bad they insult the audiences intelligence by having her spend half a season in virtual hysterics having emotional break down after breakdown apology after apology for everything she believed over and over again. Almost every scene had her in terrified face or emotionally distraught face. Emma Dumont told them its a mistake, but they didn't listen at all.

They broke The Gifted version of Lorna in the process of what they did the second half the season to myself at least. Some didn't have as hard a reaction, but the vast majority of viewers online certainly disliked it.

My guess at this point they were assuming what a Disney owned streaming service might want rather then actually responding to a directive. Either way, the writers failed the season not Disney. The directors, executive producer also failed by being lazy and changing how the shots were done and avoiding cheap action scenes which would have maintained the fan interests much better then bad soap. Its not expensive for a character to toss a knife at someone after all.

[Theleviathan]

I agree with a lot of your criticisms. (Especially surrounding Lorna and the killing of the HFC. I said after episode one I thought that was a poor choice and it only got worse)

I do see your point about the Reeva actress and maybe they were pushed to elevate her. But, as you say, that doesn't explain the dozens of other problems. The season was a mess - it was poorly conceived, poorly executed, and it deserves the ratings trend it got.

And that's too bad. At about the 8/9th episode of season 1 I had some serious hype for this show...opportunity lost.

[jmc247]

I agree with a lot of your criticisms. (Especially surrounding Lorna and the killing of the HFC. I said after episode one I thought that was a poor choice and it only got worse)

I do see your point about the Reeva actress and maybe they were pushed to elevate her. But, as you say, that doesn't explain the dozens of other problems. The season was a mess - it was poorly conceived, poorly executed, and it deserves the ratings trend it got.

I am not saying that Fox told The Gifted writers to make Grace Buyers the sole and undisputed ruler of what was supposed to be at least going by the comics a group of Kings and Queens (and other chess pieces) with different agendas and POV trying to one up each other. I think Fox just wanted her brought on and saw the potential to tap into Empire's sizable audience with bringing her on and I think the Gifted writers saw the success of Black Panther while it was going on and decided a female version of Killmonger would play better then Polaris.

The writers also clearly saw it as a chance to make Lorna and Esme the protagonists and the antagonists at the same time so they thought they could have their cake and eat it too, but that is always a dicey proposition and they choose the worst of ways to execute it.

They were never going to get Empire viewers to tune in on mass nor Black Panther viewers. That was just self delusion, but they could have done all the things they wanted to do with Reeva (and even Lorna and Esme) while not gutting their story line this season. They took their old fans for granted in hunting for new ones and many old fans just up and left.

Reeva as a co-equal member of the Hellfire Club with Lorna and Esme for most the season who comes to find their methods weak and passive and decides on straight up anti-human terrorism so takes over the group, wins over many followers including Esme's sisters and forces Lorna and Esme to ally with the Underground. Reeva more as the Fabian Cortez of the Hellfire Club.

Same central idea as the season (I don't love it, but same central idea) only Lorna and Esme can actually spend much more of the season dealing with leadership and legacy issues and the ratings would have gifted them pardon the pun a season 3.

And that's too bad. At about the 8/9th episode of season 1 I had some serious hype for this show...opportunity lost.

Agreed. The show if it followed more of its mid season two example (episodes 6, 8, and 9) would have certainly gotten a second season. It wouldn't have been close and Emma Dumont was more then happy to heavily promote the show when she was allowed to be a bad ass and deal with legacy issues at times as were quite a few other fans online including myself.



Generally it felt like episodes 8 and 9 was Lorna's realization not just understanding what her dad did to protect her which was a powerful moment as was the creation of the headgear, but it also seemed like she was about to step up and act like a leader not a follower. Her outfit (which we never saw on screen) actually also implied something better then foot soldier and much much better then cowardly double agent was in the offing.



Episodes 8 and 9 had a .7 rating which is borderline something that Fox would renew and that was an increase and the show was picking up enthusiasm again. Then came the ratings collapse and the season ended with a .4 which was lower then Inhumans ended with. The second half the season deserved the ratings it got as well.

Outside of the sites that are traditionally paid reviewers for shows and movie studios yes it went over like a lead balloon. I can't even re-watch them with Lorna cringe worthy and hyper terrified of Reeva, having an emotional break downs in Eclipse's arms, apologizing to him and everyone for everything under the sun including shit she had nothing to do with and worst of all apologizing for what she believed in.

[MichelleDiMera]

I do not understand why they went in that direction where Lorna was just whooping ass..they had her sneaking around and just turning on her whole direction. Apologizing....horrible.

The Strucker girl is entertaining but they pushed the parents way too much. They get way too much time and no one asked for that..

That Jace crap was another irritating thorn..they tried to make sympathetic even though he's shooting down people in their home for being born genetically superior. It's stupid. Should of been killed off last season..maybe he should of been on that plane. Just a boring ass character.

[jmc247]

I already accepted Lorna was a lost cause earlier this season. But I expected more with the finale overall. The lack of action has always been a problem with this show. The finale fight scenes were shockingly awful. At least Thunderbird got to cut loose a little.

Hi, Magnetic good to see another Polaris fan around these parts. Yes, Lorna hiding behind a van in terror and flickering the lights in the finale was shocking awful. How hard or expensive would it have been for her to toss the knife she has been playing with for a half dozen episodes for the writers to try to pretend she is bad assed in season two?

I guess that could be construed as her being a villain to someone out there who doesn’t accept the concept of anti-heroes so fickering the lights and being scared hiding behind a van was all she was allowed to do.

I do not understand why they went in that direction where Lorna was just whooping ass..they had her sneaking around and just turning on her whole direction. Apologizing....horrible.

IC bad and Mutant Underground good... got it, hell I agree with the writers politics on violence other then to prevent a much greater evil or as in the American Revolution or Civil War to free a people, but don’t treat your audience as children and expect them to show up as quite clearly about half of viewers who showed up this season stopped doing it and treating them as if they are 7 was a big part of it as the ratings collapse hit high gear when they went into hyperdrive in that area in the second half the season. All the good reviews in the world didn’t stop the audience from fleeing this season, because they were being disrespected.

Generally I believe Lorna as a character works best as one that transcends labels of villain or hero, someone who acts as a hero would to help others, but not with the level of force a blog standard Disney/Marvel hero would. That defines season one of The Gifted Lorna well.

Some disagree with me, but the way her popularity exploded globally in season one of the show and then slowed down and then cratered this year illustrates my point there on what works for her.

They pissed off fans of characters like Sage and Dreamer among others needlessly to further other characters stories which was just disrespectful. I wasn’t willing to boycott the show over it, but I did feel and say that it was a disrespect to fans of those characters to do so and yes Dreamer could have played a constructive role in the Hellfire Club.

[MichelleDiMera]

Sage and Dreamer can go..they didnt generate the reaction .the social media...trending like the episodes focused on Lorna's past. Anyone that looks at her Insta and Twitter knows how huge her presence carried the show. If you divert from that, it was automatically a bad sign..especially after the season finale of Season 1. Reeva is just a made up character..lol. No one knows who is compared to a member of cult status House of M Hierarchy being on TV weekly. Sage and Dreamer are in that same boat..they were fun to watch...Dreamer and Lorna had a great connection but it wasnt the life blood of the show. The progression of Lorna Dane was. Everyone went along with the ride..John, Blink, and Marcos are pretty boring in direct comparison. No one cares about Jace either. Just crazy. What the he was Matt Nix thinking?