Wonder Woman Movie Discussion & SPOILERS

[Lightning Rider]

Saw it q second time with my family. I still liked it just as much but it felt like it took a while to get to the No Man's Land scene m. Like, a long while. The humor makes it more bearable but due to having seen it in the trailer before hand, it didn't have as much impact as it could have. 3rd act drags a bit too. It's not my favorite DCEU movie but I'm glad so many people love it, and it introduced Diana wel.

[brettc1]

RE: About Diana being a god or not.

I don't understand why some people think that her nature and origins can be left for interpretation as to my understanding everything is clear to me.

This comes back to a discussion I was having with a fellow writer over on the Marvel Comics board who has a very different view to mine.

His view as stated was that the writer has absolute control over the story - it is what they say it is and that is that. They are the Almighty God of that particular fictional universe and all bow to their judgement.

My view, needless to say, is different. IMO, every reader [or viewer] brings something of themselves to a story, so that while the narrated sequence of events may be the same for everyone the actual STORY never is.

As a writer I have a picture in my head and I work very hard to put it in the head of the reader, but I also accept that it will never be exactly the same. How I view a character will not necessarily be the same as how others view them. One may see a hero, another may see a psycho. One may see a villain, the other may see a victim.

What this means is that you can say "Look, it flat out says she is a god," but someone else is completely free to disagree. Fictional stories have a great deal that can be interpreted from the point of view of the person experiencing them. My own philosophy is that a story does not exist until it is read [even if the reader is only the author] but because different people read [or view] in different ways the story is completed by the person receiving it.

And if they don't think Diana is a god, then she isn't. In their story.

[Jim Kelly]

Yeah, it's okay to think that Wonder Woman is definitely a god and was born in a human way. And if your mind is on that track, it would be hard to jump onto a different track and think the movie says anythng else.

However, it's okay for other minds to go on different tracks and come to other conculsions.

It's about paradigm shifts. Those are hard to do--so if you're seeing things from one paradigm, it's hard to shift to a completely different paradigm. However, this is something I like to do.

In terms of Diana being a god--I really don't doubt that she is--but it entertains me to think about other ways to explain what happens in her battle against Ares. Especially since everythng that Ares says is calculated.

If Diana is a weapon created by Zeus in his dying breath, then if that weapon kills another god, by that logic Zeus has killed Ares. A god has killed a god.

And how does the god-killer weapon actually kill Ares? Well, it seems that Ares brings down the lightning (the energy that Zeus owned) and throws all of it at Wonder Woman, but somehow she or her bracelets can absorb all this energy and redirect it back at Ares. What kills him is that energy--and it's not something that originates with her.

In fact, you could say that Ares defeated himself. So if Ares' actions produced his own death, then god Ares killed god Ares. So a god killed a god.

[RealWonderman]

RE: About Diana being a god or not.

Ares does say to Diana that "only a god can kill a god" and later "Let's see what kind of god you really are". He also mentions that with their powers combined, they could bring back Earth to its heavenly state minus humankind. I think it is pretty much a confirmation about Diana's nature. I remember him stating that the child "Zeus had with Hippolyta" was meant to be the god killer. Furhtermore, Diana says "goodbye brother", thus acknowledging her family ties with Ares.

I don't understand why some people think that her nature and origins can be left for interpretation as to my understanding everything is clear to me. She is the daughter of Zeus and she is part goddess and part Amazon and the clay thing was a lie from the begining the way the godkiller sword was.
I also believe that in some way, Diana is a goddess of love. It is love that unlocked her divine powers thus negating those of Ares and allowing her to manipulate the Olympian lightning.

Zeus "had children" with lots of things...including a flower... Zeus and Hippolyta "having a child together" does not convey that it was conventional.

It may very well be that instead of Hippolyta's version where she claims she "wanted a child so badly that she sculpted her from clay and prayed to Zeus to bring her to life" that it actually went more like this: Zeus ordered Hippolyta to sculpt this weapon from clay so he could use the last of his power to bring it to life, to be trained by the Amazons to destroy Ares later, to prevent Ares from destroying the world.

The "lie" of "how she came to be" is that Hippolyta did not long for a child, sculpt her, and pray, but instead was charged to do so by Zeus, to create a weapon.

AND what Jim Kelly said...

[brettc1]

Zeus "had children" with lots of things...including a flower... Zeus and Hippolyta "having a child together" does not convey that it was conventional.

It may very well be that instead of Hippolyta's version where she claims she "wanted a child so badly that she sculpted her from clay and prayed to Zeus to bring her to life" that it actually went more like this: Zeus ordered Hippolyta to sculpt this weapon from clay so he could use the last of his power to bring it to life, to be trained by the Amazons to destroy Ares later, to prevent Ares from destroying the world.

The "lie" of "how she came to be" is that Hippolyta did not long for a child, sculpt her, and pray, but instead was charged to do so by Zeus, to create a weapon.

AND what Jim Kelly said...

Speaking of lies and truth, here is a little nuance that occurred to me.

Everything Ares says while in the lasso is true for him. He says they can make the world a paradise and that is truly what he believes - it MUST be, because he is in the lasso.But even though its true for him, Diana believes something entirely different - again, while she is holding the lasso, and incapable of lying.

And her line - "I could never be part of that..." is ALSO true. When she says it. But it doesn't take anything away from her moment of decision with Poison, because she didn't know what was going to happen to Steve and how that was going to affect her. I think one of the great tragedies [and therefore triumphs] of the movie is that Diana is never able to tell Steve how she feels about him. It rings very true to me that as her first romance [presumably] it affects her so deeply and in ways she doesn't expect.

[Punisher007]

I think that it's left intentionally vague (and may or may not be delved into more in a potential sequel). But given all of the context that's in the movie, I don't believe that thy clay origin is the true one here. For several reasons:

1. That's the origin that she tells Steve (Hippolyta molded her from clay and then Zeus brought her to life). But later on, the "daughter of Zeus" idea is played up like a reveal. Like she's surprised by it and THAT'S what convinces her that she can kill Ares. If the clay origin is the true one, than her reaction doesn't make a lot of sense imo.

2. The fact that she starts calling Ares "brother" AFTER the reveal.

3. We see that Hippolyta isn't above lying/keeping secrets from Diana if she believes that it's for a good reason.

4. Ares comment that "only a god can kill another god."

5. Etc.

Also Charles Roven said before the movie even came out that they were going with the demigoddess origin in the DCEU. My question is, did Zeus get Hippolyta pregnant the "old-fashioned way" or did he use some other more "creative" means (since he is known to do that in mythology as well).

[CRaymond]

Does anyone in this thread address the fact that the Ares in the film is different than the Ares we got in the Toys affiliated with the film?

The helm is significantly different.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Storyboard of Wonder Woman ending: http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/06/06/wonder-woman-ending

[RealWonderman]

Storyboard of Wonder Woman ending: http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/06/06/wonder-woman-ending

That's really cool to see this!! But that's not how it actually happened in the film...

[BiteTheBullet]

That's really cool to see this!! But that's not how it actually happened in the film...

I don't think she was wearing glasses in the Louvre.

But they got the 'not' flying part right on the storyboards

[RealWonderman]

I don't think she was wearing glasses in the Louvre.

But they got the 'not' flying part right on the storyboards

Ugh. No. She didn't jump off a building to the ground. She went up up and away. And she didn't have a sword.
Flyin WW 1.jpgFlying WW 2.jpgFlying WW 3.jpg

[BiteTheBullet]

Ugh. No. She didn't jump off a building to the ground. She went up up and away. And she didn't have a sword.
Flyin WW 1.jpgFlying WW 2.jpgFlying WW 3.jpg

She did a superjump, much farther than Carl Lewis ever did I will concede, with her looking like she was coming down in an arc to land just before they cut away to black. Maybe an Ironman landing?

Up and away? Like Superman? We can't have her doing that, it would diminish Superman now

[Silvanus]

She did a superjump, much farther than Carl Lewis ever did I will concede, with her looking like she was coming down in an arc to land just before they cut away to black. Maybe an Ironman landing?

Up and away? Like Superman? We can't have her doing that, it would diminish Superman now

I pretty much agree with RealWonderman; I think that scene at least teased us with the prospect that she can fly.

[BiteTheBullet]

I pretty much agree with RealWonderman; I think that scene at least teased us with the prospect that she can fly.

Teased, giving us crumbs, jerking Wonder Woman fans around. That seems to be the modus operandi.

I hope this is all resolved in the Justice League movie. No flying in that movie will certainly sound the death knell for that power.

[Jim Kelly]

If they had done the dive like in the storyboard that would recall the earlier scene where she dives from a high cliff into the water--I think it's all one shot. Kind of an effective idea, as that's the scene where her life with Steve begins and where her mission essentially starts. But maybe they didn't want to make that association at the end of the movie--might have made us think about things we're not supposed to at that moment.