Wonder Woman Movie Discussion & SPOILERS

[Punisher007]

Also they weren't going to replace Professor Lupin with some unknown actor just for the climax. That was never going to happen.

[dianafan1985]

Patty said at that point she was exuding pure love, and it was extremely powerful. Not something we'll be seeing again, I think.

Patty said that her love was protecting her, and I believe she was referring to Diana's love for Steve Trevor protecting her from Ares' influence and manipulations, which we saw.

[devil leonx]

Are you talking about people older than 30? Because most of the young movie audience where the bulk of the money made has seen Wonder Woman mostly through the Justice League animated movies and series. And, she flys.

Using the invisible plane as proof that she isn't seen as a flyer just doesn't hold water anymore.

One of the most popular shows as well as in merchandising is the DC Superhero girls show. And guess again, she flys.

Im talking about people not into comic books, the not casual consumers I suppose. And I agree she should fly, I am saying her not flying in the movie helps the movie more because when a character can fly it makes stories a lot more difficult I think .

[dianafan1985]

The difference is the missiles of Ares are being formed and propelled by his god power. So it's posdible she is just negating his influence, causing them to fall apart and drop to the ground. Bullets are propelled by physics.

Diana's creation isn't made up of physics. She is purely mystical and magical in form and origin, hence why she appeared so amusing in the movie next to earthly Steve Trevor.

On a second note, Diana has had godlike strength and power for multiple decades, even when she was bestowed powers after being sculpted by her mother from clay. In 2006, I remember Diana was described as a goddess on the DC website; and I have observed her given the same description numerous times prior to that year. I just fail to see the merit for any alarm to be risen simply because they called her a god. In BvS, Lex Luthor called Superman a god, and I understood that it was because he was so powerful. I never took it as a bad thing, nor did I notice any threads popping up on the Superman board or any other board decrying the description, but to each his own.

[CRaymond]

That is probably because you spent 5-40 years imagining your ideal Wonder Woman film. I did the same thing too and left the theatre thinking, "They should have done this and that" it was only upon my second viewing did I fully appreciate Jenkin's direction.

Yeah no. Script doctoring is my favorite part of the filmmaking process. And nearly every review I've read agrees that last battle is the weakest part of an otherwise excellent story.

[dianafan1985]

A Quick review:

I really enjoyed the ride, it was refreshing, like a dream come true!

My pros:
- Themyscira is Wonderful
- The Amazons are badasses
- Gal's Presence
- The diversity
- The cinematography
- The fight choregraphies
- Wonder Woman IS a powerhouse, though I had the feeling that we just saw a portion of what she is able to do. I like the progression of her powers. She is super strong, super fast, durable, heals fast, can speak hundreds of languages. She swims fast too. I suspect she will be able to fly and that she only gets to hover by the end the Ares fight. She also seems to be able to create an invisible force field. I wished she would have used more of the power wave thing, she only used it once, although it seemed to me that the gauntlets only allow her to aim it because after she plows through the soldiers, the energy seem to emanate from her whole body, pushing away everyone.
- The 2hours+ felt like 10 minutes, it went so fast to me! I mean, it's a good sign, I never felt bored, I liked the quiet moments.

My cons:

- Lots of movie mistakes. Like the BVS picture for instance, the front strap is not on the same side in the WW movie. How could they have overlooked that? Or at the No Man's Land sequence, how the hell did the shiled end up on her back under the cloak when she had civilian clothes underneath it and that prior to that the shield was nowhere to be seen? Or after the gala scene, she didn't have her upper armor under the blue dress, but she had it when she went to Veld on horseback.
- Underdeveloped characters, I wish I had seen more of the Amazons, the specifities of their culture, more of Etta too, an explanation as to the blue gaz, and maybe some backstory for Doctor Poison.
- The Ares fight was too short and didn't seem to me that it was on Doomsday or Zod level in terms of threat. I mean, he's a god right?
- The dead gods, I don't like it at all. Even though I suspect that they might come back in some way or the other.
- Why did Zeus have to create a weapon to kill a god? Couldn't he do it himself? Were the other gods so weak to let themselves be defeated by Ares? What is so special about the creation of Diana that only she could bring an end to Ares' life?

Those negative criticism didn't take away anything from my appreciation of the movie though, I give it a 8/10. I'm gonna see it again tomorrow. And agian with some friends.

Also, at one point, Hippolyta says something like "Let's thank the gods for their gifts" in a pagan praying posture. Why would she pray to the gods if they are all dead? And how can the island's magic be sustained if their creators are all gone?

EDIT: My favorite sequence is when she destroys the upper part of the Church. It looks like she brought down the Judeo-Christian patriarchy and emerges from the debris as the new goddess of the world!

First of all, I just love your review. You are so detailed oriented, as I never noticed the things you mentioned about Diana's attire, nor do I want to even see them.

I do disagree with you that Ares was not a Zod level threat, because I believe he was portrayed to be more powerful than any Kryptonian (including Superman) that I have seen on screen. He can make himself invisible, he has telepathic powers, he has magical thunderbolts, he is SUPER STRONG and SUPER FAST. He can create illusions. Indeed, he may not be a doomsday level threat (because Doomsday is on Hulk's level of catastrophe
and power, in my opinion), but he most definitely was portrayed as more powerful than Zod. Didn't you see that explosion he created that knocked Diana right off her feet? This was a highly powerful being. He just chatted a lot.

[brettc1]

Diana's creation isn't made up of physics. She is purely mystical and magical in form and origin, hence why she appeared so amusing in the movie next to earthly Steve Trevor.

I'm not sure what point you are making here?

On a second note, Diana has had godlike strength and power for multiple decades, even when she was bestowed powers after being sculpted by her mother from clay. In 2006, I remember Diana was described as a goddess on the DC website; and I have observed her given the same description numerous times prior to that year. I just fail to see the merit for any alarm to be risen simply because they called her a god. In BvS, Lex Luthor called Superman a god, and I understood that it was because he was so powerful. I never took it as a bad thing, nor did I notice any threads popping up on the Superman board or any other board decrying the description, but to each his own.

The 2006 reference would coincide with her ascending to godhood as a result of events in the John Byrne run. She had a brief tenure as Goddess of Truth while her mother adventured as Wonder Woman. At the end of Byrne's run [136 I think] she returned to Earth, but technically was still considered a god.

However, like many things in Byrne's run this was quickly abandoned as a concept.

[Jim Kelly]

And nearly every review I've read agrees that last battle is the weakest part of an otherwise excellent story.

I'm not swayed by the reviews. I was paying close attention the second time I watched the movie and I just couldn't see that there were any big flaws in the final act. It all makes sense within the scheme of the movie.

I also find that reviewers commonly say that the final act in any movie is weak. It's an easy critique to make. But it's probably a fault of the three act structure--which Syd Field promoted in SCREENPLAY (1979). Allan Heinberg could have made WONDER WOMAN shatter even more conventions if he had abandoned this three act model--but it's likely that Hollywood production is set up to work with a three act structure and they were always going to adhere to that scheme.

[dianafan1985]

I'm not sure what point you are making here?

I actually misread your post my apologies.

The 2006 reference would coincide with her ascending to godhood as a result of events in the John Byrne run. She had a brief tenure as Goddess of Truth while her mother adventured as Wonder Woman. At the end of Byrne's run [136 I think] she returned to Earth, but technically was still considered a god.

However, like many things in Byrne's run this was quickly abandoned as a concept.

In 2006, Byrne was not writing Wonder Woman, and there was no mention of Byrne (or anything that he had written for Wonder Woman) in the bio. The passage simply described Diana as possessing godlike strength, which she did, due to all the powers bestowed to her by the various Olympians from the time of her creation. This concept was not abandoned in 2006, and still has not been abandoned to this date. Even back in the 40s, she was lifting Paradise Island under water, she was shown as being able to lasso the sun, and she was also shown as being able to fight the god Mars. Historically speaking, she has always displayed godlike abilities, and comes as no surprise that they decided to described her as a god in the DCEU.

[brettc1]

In 2006, Byrne was not writing Wonder Woman, and there was no mention of Byrne (or anything that he had written for Wonder Woman) in the bio. The passage simply described Diana as possessing godlike strength, which she did, due to all the powers bestowed to her by the various Olympians from the time of her creation. This concept has not been abandoned, and still has not been abandoned to this date. Even back in the 40s, she was lifting Paradise Island under water, she was shown as being able to lasso the sun, and she was also shown as being able to fight the god Mars. Historically speaking, she has always displayed godlike abilities, and comes as no surprise that they decided to described her as a god in the DCEU.

My turn to apologize for being unclear. Your original post I was answering said...

On a second note, Diana has had godlike strength and power for multiple decades, even when she was bestowed powers after being sculpted by her mother from clay. In 2006, I remember Diana was described as a goddess on the DC website; and I have observed her given the same description numerous times prior to that year. I just fail to see the merit for any alarm to be risen simply because they called her a god. In BvS, Lex Luthor called Superman a god, and I understood that it was because he was so powerful. I never took it as a bad thing, nor did I notice any threads popping up on the Superman board or any other board decrying the description, but to each his own.

...and this is what I was referring to. Byrne drew and wrote the book from 1995 - 1998, with Diana becoming in a goddess in the last 10 issues. That may be where the references to her being a goddess on the DC website came from, though I don't think anyone payed a lot of attention to the idea in the book after Byrne's departure.

[misha84]

Hi, loved the movie, especially Gal who's absolutely amazing and will watch it again in a few days. The only question I had is if only a God can kill a God, as Ares says, and WW is a God in this adaptation and the clay thing was just in order to hide the identity of her father, it's safe to assume that a bullet wouldn't kill her and Anteope's (who knew that WW's father is Zeus) sacrifice wasn't really necessary. Or because WW still hasn't fully unlocked her powers at that point she was more vulnerable then? Am I missing something?

[brettc1]

Hi, loved the movie, especially Gal who's absolutely amazing and will watch it again in a few days. The only question I had is if only a God can kill a God, as Ares says, and WW is a God in this adaptation and the clay thing was just in order to hide the identity of her father, it's safe to assume that a bullet wouldn't kill her and Anteope's (who knew that WW's father is Zeus) sacrifice wasn't really necessary. Or because WW still hasn't fully unlocked her powers at that point she was more vulnerable then? Am I missing something?

No, that is the clear implication - that at that moment Diana was vulnerable because she had to grow into her full power.

Now, whether that means she is bulletproof NOW is another question. If she is indeed a god and the rule holds true, then she should be almost unkillable. But there are some caveats to that.

First, it's not clear WHY only a god can kill a god. It might simply be that in ancient times only a god would have the power level required to do so. In the modern day, as has already been mentioned, beings like Superman and Doomsday have power that would effectively make them godlike. Since he is bound and determined to wipe out the entire human race Ares doesn't seem much concerned with using them as a power source, as we have seen in comic stories.

Second, it's not clear that at the end of the movie Diana is indeed a full god. I noted upthread that she uses Ares own lightning to kill him - so his god power is his undoing, effectively sidestepping the NEED for Diana to be a god herself in order to fulfill some arcane rule.

One thing I was intrigued by is the creation story Hippolyta tells Diana. I didn't think they would go the route of having the gods literally create humans, but I did note that Hippolyta tells Diana later "That was only a story."

[brettc1]

First weekly total is in!

With Thursday's $9.1M the total for Diana's first week on the big screen stands at

$147,822,503

Her first Tuesday, Wednesday AND Thursday box office in the US did better than BVS at the same time in its run.

HOLA!

[misha84]

No, that is the clear implication - that at that moment Diana was vulnerable because she had to grow into her full power.

Now, whether that means she is bulletproof NOW is another question. If she is indeed a god and the rule holds true, then she should be almost unkillable. But there are some caveats to that.

First, it's not clear WHY only a god can kill a god. It might simply be that in ancient times only a god would have the power level required to do so. In the modern day, as has already been mentioned, beings like Superman and Doomsday have power that would effectively make them godlike. Since he is bound and determined to wipe out the entire human race Ares doesn't seem much concerned with using them as a power source, as we have seen in comic stories.

Second, it's not clear that at the end of the movie Diana is indeed a full god. I noted upthread that she uses Ares own lightning to kill him - so his god power is his undoing, effectively sidestepping the NEED for Diana to be a god herself in order to fulfill some arcane rule.

One thing I was intrigued by is the creation story Hippolyta tells Diana. I didn't think they would go the route of having the gods literally create humans, but I did note that Hippolyta tells Diana later "That was only a story."

Thanks for replying. Another thing I was wondering about is that in BvS Diana said she walked away from mankind while this movie ended on a positive note. So something must've happened in between (World War II related perhaps) that made her go incognito till Superman's sacrifice. Hope it will be addressed in a sequel, even though I want it to be closer to the modern time.

[brettc1]

Thanks for replying. Another thing I was wondering about is that in BvS Diana said she walked away from mankind while this movie ended on a positive note. So something must've happened in between (World War II related perhaps) that made her go incognito till Superman's sacrifice. Hope it will be addressed in a sequel, even though I want it to be closer to the modern time.

The best indication that Diana has been active for at least some of the century since the end of WW1 is that Lex is aware of her. Almost everyone who saw her in action was killed in the gas attack by Ludendorff [it most likely would killed the British and Belgian soldiers as well] and its a pretty safe bet none of Steve's team would have said anything. There would have been rumours perhaps, but mostly unverifiable. So there must have been reports of a "wonder woman" other than what happened on that single battlefield that got Lex digging in the first place.

That said, the only clue he is able to scrounge up is that one photo. So from that we may assume that Diana worked hard to keep any record of her actual identity hidden.

Furthermore, Diana is aware of Lex's digging into her affairs as well, which is why she turns up at his part in Gotham. So that must mean even is she is not heroing in costume she was still active at some level.