Wonder Woman Movie Discussion & SPOILERS

[Jim Kelly]

WOW!!!
'Wonder Woman' Wins Best Fight for "No Man's Land" Scene at MTV Movie & TV Awards!

http://comicbook.com/dc/amp/2018/06/...-no-mans-land/

That's great!

I really loved her acting in that scene. You really felt what she was feeling.

I don't want to give any more attention to that other thread about Gal's acting, but my own opinion is that some folks can't see past the accent and the good looks. It's like they wouldn't believe Greta Garbo, Marlene Dietrich or Ingrid Bergman were great actresses--simply because they had foreign accents and were stunningly beautiful.

To me the greatness of the performance is that Jenkins didn't let Gal vogue--or mug for the camera. As a super model, Gadot knows how to pose for a camera that shows herself off in pleasing ways. But real actresses and actors don't do that. They don't have that kind of vanity and play the emotion of the scene for real--sometimes appearing not their most beautiful.

Mugging is one of my personal pet peeves and it will take me out of a TV show or movie. This is when an actor or actress--but more often an actress--always pulls expressions on screen that are supposed to look good. She's probably been told by others how to arch an eyebrow or pout a lip in just the right way that shows off her beauty. Even when sad and crying, she'll look good doing it. Male actors do this, too. For example, the strong silent type, who always set their jaws and squint their eyes so they look like the Marlboro Man.

I was recently on a long flight where I happened to see many other people were watching THE GREATEST SHOWMAN (not a movie that I bothered to watch) and I started to notice how certain actors played their scenes. There's one actress--Rebecca Ferguson, IMDb tells me--who was voguing in every scene. I mean that she always tried to make her face look beautiful in each shot, even when singing (and when people sing for real, they often pull strange faces). Nothing against this actresses--it could be her direction or the way the film was edited. But when I looked at Michelle Williams, in every shot I saw she was playing the emotion of the character. She's just as beautiful, but her expressions were authentic, never trying to make herself look perfect from every angle. And Hugh Jackman, while incredibly handsome, allows his face to contort in unflattering ways throughout the movie.

If you watch WONDER WOMAN and freeze the frame on certain actions--especially big fights or emotional scenes--Gal doesn't hold back, she lets you see the feeling in her face and in her body. She lets herself appear vulnerable and not always as perfectly beautiful as she could be. She's not self-aware like some screen stars seem to be, where they always pose to look great. If they have an angry face, it's a perfectly posed expression of anger; if they're in thought, it's a photogenic introspection.

That to me is why Jenkins got a great performance from Gal Gadot. She didn't let Gal be the model--she made her act. As for the accent, that helps the performance. I know many people who speak English with a foreign accent. They can't always communicate pefectly what they feel, through words. And you can see that in their faces and their bodies--the utter frustration and sadness they often feel. Just as I've felt the same emotion, when trying to communicate in a foreign language.

And this is in tune with what Wonder Woman is going through in most of the movie. She's trying to make a connection with a new people and a new place, she's never seen before. Yet she can't always do that and you can see her consternation. She wants to be understood and to understand, but too often fails in the attempt. This wouldn't have worked if Gal had spoken perfect English.

[misha84]

Al Pacino agrees with you:

http://www.ibtimes.com.au/wonder-wom...pacino-1569433

[Vanguard-01]

Al Pacino agrees with you:

http://www.ibtimes.com.au/wonder-wom...pacino-1569433

That is seriously high praise indeed.

[RealWonderman]

Al Pacino agrees with you:

http://www.ibtimes.com.au/wonder-wom...pacino-1569433

OMGS. I was just posting... literally, verbatim... exactly this Ha!!!

[kjn]

Though I get to wonder about him calling a woman in her mid-30s and two kids a "girl", and the editorial note on Wonder Woman being "a big hit for a female superhero, something which Hollywood has been trying hard to perfect for a long time now". If the most recent attempt had been in 2005, that's not trying hard.

[Jim Kelly]

I came of age in a time when feminism and women's lib was in full force and I truly believe in those ideals, so I was cautious about how I chose my words and who I called a girl. However, women themselves use the word girl all the time. And I've had a lot of female friends who referred to grown men as boys. In fact, it's pretty common to call elderly men boys. So it's really the context, I think. You can kind of tell when someone is using such words to put someone down or minimize their importance and when it's used with respect.

And you also have to recognize that people of different generations have different ways of talking. It could just be force of habit and not an intentional slight. I certainly give younger people a break when I hear them talking in ways that I could find offensive, but I realize the words they're using have taken on a different meaning for them.

[kjn]

I came of age in a time when feminism and women's lib was in full force and I truly believe in those ideals, so I was cautious about how I chose my words and who I called a girl.

I wasn't responding to your earlier post, but to the IBtimes article that misha84 linked to. Sorry if I gave that impression.

[Powerboy]

That's great!

I really loved her acting in that scene. You really felt what she was feeling.

I don't want to give any more attention to that other thread about Gal's acting, but my own opinion is that some folks can't see past the accent and the good looks. It's like they wouldn't believe Greta Garbo, Marlene Dietrich or Ingrid Bergman were great actresses--simply because they had foreign accents and were stunningly beautiful.

To me the greatness of the performance is that Jenkins didn't let Gal vogue--or mug for the camera. As a super model, Gadot knows how to pose for a camera that shows herself off in pleasing ways. But real actresses and actors don't do that. They don't have that kind of vanity and play the emotion of the scene for real--sometimes appearing not their most beautiful.

Mugging is one of my personal pet peeves and it will take me out of a TV show or movie. This is when an actor or actress--but more often an actress--always pulls expressions on screen that are supposed to look good. She's probably been told by others how to arch an eyebrow or pout a lip in just the right way that shows off her beauty. Even when sad and crying, she'll look good doing it. Male actors do this, too. For example, the strong silent type, who always set their jaws and squint their eyes so they look like the Marlboro Man.

I was recently on a long flight where I happened to see many other people were watching THE GREATEST SHOWMAN (not a movie that I bothered to watch) and I started to notice how certain actors played their scenes. There's one actress--Rebecca Ferguson, IMDb tells me--who was voguing in every scene. I mean that she always tried to make her face look beautiful in each shot, even when singing (and when people sing for real, they often pull strange faces). Nothing against this actresses--it could be her direction or the way the film was edited. But when I looked at Michelle Williams, in every shot I saw she was playing the emotion of the character. She's just as beautiful, but her expressions were authentic, never trying to make herself look perfect from every angle. And Hugh Jackman, while incredibly handsome, allows his face to contort in unflattering ways throughout the movie.

If you watch WONDER WOMAN and freeze the frame on certain actions--especially big fights or emotional scenes--Gal doesn't hold back, she lets you see the feeling in her face and in her body. She lets herself appear vulnerable and not always as perfectly beautiful as she could be. She's not self-aware like some screen stars seem to be, where they always pose to look great. If they have an angry face, it's a perfectly posed expression of anger; if they're in thought, it's a photogenic introspection.

That to me is why Jenkins got a great performance from Gal Gadot. She didn't let Gal be the model--she made her act. As for the accent, that helps the performance. I know many people who speak English with a foreign accent. They can't always communicate pefectly what they feel, through words. And you can see that in their faces and their bodies--the utter frustration and sadness they often feel. Just as I've felt the same emotion, when trying to communicate in a foreign language.

And this is in tune with what Wonder Woman is going through in most of the movie. She's trying to make a connection with a new people and a new place, she's never seen before. Yet she can't always do that and you can see her consternation. She wants to be understood and to understand, but too often fails in the attempt. This wouldn't have worked if Gal had spoken perfect English.

Gotta agree with everything here. I don't get the people who think she's not a good actress, especially with Jenkins' direction. Maybe it's the accent as she obviously has to enunciate distinctly when she speaks English like someone for whom it was not her first language. But, as you said, that makes it feel all the more authentic. It makes it feel like Wonder Woman's native language wasn't English but rather some other language like, maybe, Ancient Greek.

And then there's the "It's not precisely her origin from any specific comic book version" crowd. Richard Donner and Christopher Reeve say hello. George Perez's version wasn't Marston's version either.

But still glad to see it's getting the high praise it deserves.

[Jim Kelly]

I wasn't responding to your earlier post, but to the IBtimes article that misha84 linked to. Sorry if I gave that impression.

Oh yes, I understood that. I was just trying to offer some thoughts on why Al Pacino might talk that way. Not that I'm as old as him or have anything in common with him--except for liking Gal Gadot's performance.

[kjn]

Oh yes, I understood that. I was just trying to offer some thoughts on why Al Pacino might talk that way. Not that I'm as old as him or have anything in common with him--except for liking Gal Gadot's performance.

I understand why Pacino could talk like that to. But coming from a man in his position and age it also reinforces and underscores their relative status. It's not as much as a white American calling a black man "boy", but it is in the same direction. It denies Gal Gadot's experience and life.

For what it's worth, whatever my thoughts of Gadot's acting skills, I didn't find her accent an issue. She had many good line deliveries, especially in comedic and what I'd call co-lead drama scenes. The reason we talk about her acting is because she is good to very good in most respects and then does poorly when placed in certain specific but important spots.

[RealWonderman]

Oh yes, I understood that. I was just trying to offer some thoughts on why Al Pacino might talk that way. Not that I'm as old as him or have anything in common with him--except for liking Gal Gadot's performance.

I'm also going to venture a guess that, since he didn't even know her name, he probably doesn't know her age, marital status, or that she she has kids. To him, at his age, she probably looks like a 'girl.,' And I think it's pretty common for men of a certain age to use girl and boy, with no offense (or awareness.)

[Gaelforce]

I'm also going to venture a guess that, since he didn't even know her name, he probably doesn't know her age, marital status, or that she she has kids. To him, at his age, she probably looks like a 'girl.,' And I think it's pretty common for men of a certain age to use girl and boy, with no offense (or awareness.)

My in-laws both passed away in their 90s when I was in my 40s. I was always 'girl' and 'kid' to them and it was never anything I was offended by

[Jim Kelly]

Yeah, my parents would say some pretty odd things. But I got used to it. It would have to be really over the top for me to notice and maybe comment. And then I'd have to speak to them in such a way that they could understand I was being helpful and not putting them down. They were both very good people to everyone they met, so their words never came from a place of hate or derision, it was simply the vocabulary they had been given by the society they grew up in. And when you get older, your self-censor turns off.

However, I'm surprised that people in the public eye don't run everything through their handlers before they commit anything to a text or video. They don't seem to understand the megaphone effect of putting anything out there on social media.

[RealWonderman]

My in-laws both passed away in their 90s when I was in my 40s. I was always 'girl' and 'kid' to them and it was never anything I was offended by

And every housewife on every Bravo show says girl... so did Bea, Betty, and Rue... and Estelle!

[Joao]

That to me is why Jenkins got a great performance from Gal Gadot. She didn't let Gal be the model--she made her act. As for the accent, that helps the performance. I know many people who speak English with a foreign accent. They can't always communicate pefectly what they feel, through words. And you can see that in their faces and their bodies--the utter frustration and sadness they often feel. Just as I've felt the same emotion, when trying to communicate in a foreign language.

And this is in tune with what Wonder Woman is going through in most of the movie. She's trying to make a connection with a new people and a new place, she's never seen before. Yet she can't always do that and you can see her consternation. She wants to be understood and to understand, but too often fails in the attempt. This wouldn't have worked if Gal had spoken perfect English.

Great thoughts on this. I think her acting could be better at some points, but the accent is an aspect that people usually overlook. It's also why I loved her casting from the start.

I'm Brazilian, so a Portuguese speaker, and having English as a second language does some stuff with our ways of communicating. It's almost like we express ourselves with another personality, idk. And we usually get almost caricatural/cartoonish while speaking. Some Wonder Woman moments remind me of that in a good way. Thanks for reminding me of that!