Wonder Woman Movie Discussion & SPOILERS

[MikaelNovasun]

After thinking long and hard about the way it was handled, I've decided to not let that ruin the movie for me. They do not explicitly say that Hippolyta and Zeus have an affair so Zeus striking the clay with lightning could still count as his child and Ares brother. I was just so upset after watching that an otherwise perfect movie would throw in something that even D.C. Realized was a mistake and got rid of. That was a small five year blip out of 75 years. It divided fans and creators alike. I agree with you that they made it clear that she was Diana because of her mother and the Amazons unlike nu52 which had her become Wonder Woman in spite of them.

I have to respectfully disagree about it being a better origin. For me, Zeus daddy is lazy. It's so unoriginal. It's the same origin as tons of other characters including Cassie Sandsmark and Hercules. There are so many more creative ways to promote Diana to god level abilities rather than just slapping on the old child of Zeus gimmick. Also, it fundamentally changes her. I always use the example of what if Superman found out that he wasn't an alien, but a science project. The Kents didn't find him, they were the scientists that created him. Same powers, same upbringing. Same character? Nope. If readers can't get behind a clay statue brought to life and they need her to have a father (the only Amazon to have a male needed???) there are better choices. I understand that a lot of readers like and prefer the Zeus origin. We had *one* female centric origin in all of comics and we lost it. Thankfully rebirth has brought the clay origin back for the time being. I'm sure D.C. will mess with it again.

Diana's original origin story was my least favorite part of the character. She was made from clay, had an invisible jet that didn't make her invisible as well, and she would lose her powers if chained or handcuffed. Each change/tweak to her origin and power set has been a boon. Giving her flight and eliminating the silly plane, and doing away with bondage as her weakness were great changes. And I like how the movie handled the clay origin to hide her true parentage. It adds another twist and more possibilities for future plot lines. The core of her character isn't changed. She was still nurtured and trained by the Amazons as a daughter, and niece. It is her growing up among the Amazons, and her ideals that truly define her character.

[Jim Kelly]

I think you're really not supposed to know how Diana actually came into existence. It could be she was made from clay by Hippolyte and given life by Zeus, it could be that Hippolyte and Zeus had sex back in Anatolia and the queen came to Themyscira already with child, it could be that Zeus himself fashioned Diana and plucked her from his side and then delivered her unto the Amazons to be raised by their queen as her daughter. Or some other chemical formula.

The important thing is the feeling.

The movie is all about feeling. And the feeling of Hippolyte is distinct from that of Zeus or Ares. For the queen, Diana is her daughter, the child she loves, her greatest joy and her greatest sorrow. For Zeus she is a god-killer. There was nothing by accident in Diana's creation (unlike all human births), which suggests that Zeus himself made her--but not out of love and purely for his own pragmatic interests--she isn't his daughter, she's his weapon, a thing.

But what bugs me about putting Zeus into the stoy is that it takes the women out of the story. I like it better when the goddesses are the ones who give Diana the divine spark. And it seems a weird logic that adding a patriachal god into the mix is somehow more modern than the way it was done before when women were at the centre of the story.

None of it is realistic--whether she's made from clay or DNA--it's all about mythical mystical beings and an island of paradise. So I don't follow the argument that having a god rape a woman is a reflection of reality.

[SteveGus]

After thinking long and hard about the way it was handled, I've decided to not let that ruin the movie for me. They do not explicitly say that Hippolyta and Zeus have an affair so Zeus striking the clay with lightning could still count as his child and Ares brother. I was just so upset after watching that an otherwise perfect movie would throw in something that even D.C. Realized was a mistake and got rid of. That was a small five year blip out of 75 years. It divided fans and creators alike. I agree with you that they made it clear that she was Diana because of her mother and the Amazons unlike nu52 which had her become Wonder Woman in spite of them.

I have to respectfully disagree about it being a better origin. For me, Zeus daddy is lazy. It's so unoriginal.

Well, you're right about that. Then again, I never had issues with the Daughter of Zeus origin per se. That wasn't what made me swear off reading DC for five years. It was the treatment of Paradise Island and the Amazons that I could not stand, and how degrading them made Diana's character make no sense. That was fortunately not in the movie.

[Agent Z]

Diana's original origin story was my least favorite part of the character. She was made from clay, had an invisible jet that didn't make her invisible as well, and she would lose her powers if chained or handcuffed. Each change/tweak to her origin and power set has been a boon. Giving her flight and eliminating the silly plane, and doing away with bondage as her weakness were great changes. And I like how the movie handled the clay origin to hide her true parentage. It adds another twist and more possibilities for future plot lines. The core of her character isn't changed. She was still nurtured and trained by the Amazons as a daughter, and niece. It is her growing up among the Amazons, and her ideals that truly define her character.

The Invisible jet and chain weakness have nothing to do with her origins. You can have the clay part without those and with the gods dead, I'm not seeing what future story lines can be done with the Zeus origin (if it's even the same as the New 52 one given how vague it is). Besides, you can come up with stories that don't rely on how she was born and writers have been doing so for decades.

[gwangung]

None of it is realistic--whether she's made from clay or DNA--it's all about mythical mystical beings and an island of paradise. So I don't follow the argument that having a god rape a woman is a reflection of reality.

Whether it's from clay or via sex, I think it's clear Hipollyta agreed to have this child. I don't think characterizing it as an affair or rape is accurate.

[Natamaxxx]

After thinking long and hard about the way it was handled, I've decided to not let that ruin the movie for me. They do not explicitly say that Hippolyta and Zeus have an affair so Zeus striking the clay with lightning could still count as his child and Ares brother. I was just so upset after watching that an otherwise perfect movie would throw in something that even D.C. Realized was a mistake and got rid of. That was a small five year blip out of 75 years. It divided fans and creators alike. I agree with you that they made it clear that she was Diana because of her mother and the Amazons unlike nu52 which had her become Wonder Woman in spite of them.

I have to respectfully disagree about it being a better origin. For me, Zeus daddy is lazy. It's so unoriginal. It's the same origin as tons of other characters including Cassie Sandsmark and Hercules. There are so many more creative ways to promote Diana to god level abilities rather than just slapping on the old child of Zeus gimmick. Also, it fundamentally changes her. I always use the example of what if Superman found out that he wasn't an alien, but a science project. The Kents didn't find him, they were the scientists that created him. Same powers, same upbringing. Same character? Nope. If readers can't get behind a clay statue brought to life and they need her to have a father (the only Amazon to have a male needed???) there are better choices. I understand that a lot of readers like and prefer the Zeus origin. We had *one* female centric origin in all of comics and we lost it. Thankfully rebirth has brought the clay origin back for the time being. I'm sure D.C. will mess with it again.

There will always be disagreements/preferences about her origin. I don't know that anyone actually "needs" her to have a father anymore than anyone "needs" her to be made of clay, but everyone is entitled to their feelings on the subject, and it's ok. I think the film left it just ambiguous enough to let us fill in the blanks as we see fit. In a way, we both get to have what we want.

Also, I'm really glad to hear that the movie isn't quite ruined for you! All in all, it's a spectacular film that brings Diana and her world to life in a way I didn't ever think I would see in my lifetime and the more people enjoy it the better I feel!

[BiteTheBullet]

Superman is NOT the top alpha dog. Superman has not been the top alpha dog for most of my lifetime. (If not all of it.)

Some thirty-odd years ago, BATMAN knocked Superman off the DC throne and has reigned undisputed in that capacity ever since. Batman routinely humiliates powerful characters who should be able to swat him like a fly. Batman basically has a superpower that lowers the IQ of every other hero in the story to "drooling idiot" levels. Batman pulls deus ex machina devices out of thin air and succeeds where Superman fails utterly.

Who won the fight in BvS? Superman's only consolation was that he won the moral victory. The physical victory? Batman's. Because "Superpowers? LOL! Superpowers are nothing before the power of 'Because I'm BATMAN!!!'"

Who is assembling the Justice League?

If you're not Batman in ANY version of the DCU, then your power levels mean nothing. And Diana not having flight hardly makes her less powerful than Superman to begin with. She went toe-to-toe with the same monster that he was fighting in BvS and she did unquestionably better than he did against him. She is clearly on his level in every way, flight or no flight.

I think you know what I mean about top alpha dog in terms of powerset.

If we play by the comics and go the bat-god route, then Diana can get kicked in the stomach by Batman and get knocked out. Or, Cheetah can get one-punched by Batman and get knocked out cold.

And, no, I don't agree with your opinion on flight or no flight with respect to Diana. This is her first solo movie ever, and to not know or show her true powerset is just plain disappointing.

[Triple J]

Superman is NOT the top alpha dog. Superman has not been the top alpha dog for most of my lifetime. (If not all of it.)

Some thirty-odd years ago, BATMAN knocked Superman off the DC throne and has reigned undisputed in that capacity ever since. Batman routinely humiliates powerful characters who should be able to swat him like a fly. Batman basically has a superpower that lowers the IQ of every other hero in the story to "drooling idiot" levels. Batman pulls deus ex machina devices out of thin air and succeeds where Superman fails utterly.

Who won the fight in BvS? Superman's only consolation was that he won the moral victory. The physical victory? Batman's. Because "Superpowers? LOL! Superpowers are nothing before the power of 'Because I'm BATMAN!!!'"

Who is assembling the Justice League?

If you're not Batman in ANY version of the DCU, then your power levels mean nothing. And Diana not having flight hardly makes her less powerful than Superman to begin with. She went toe-to-toe with the same monster that he was fighting in BvS and she did unquestionably better than he did against him. She is clearly on his level in every way, flight or no flight.

True, but I don't think Snyder is doing Batgod with DCEU.

Clark is definitely inexperienced though, whereas Diana and Bruce knows how to fight (which I would say is more important than just brute force). Clark is also at a disadvantage when it comes to training. So far he hasn't trained with anyone who can match his power. Only real fight he has engaged in is with Zod. I hope, either in JL or down the line, we get sequences where Bruce, Diana and Arthur are teaching him various fighting styles/techniques.

[RealWonderman]

True, but I don't think Snyder is doing Batgod with DCEU.

Clark is definitely inexperienced though, whereas Diana and Bruce knows how to fight (which I would say is more important than just brute force). Clark is also at a disadvantage when it comes to training. So far he hasn't trained with anyone who can match his power. Only real fight he has engaged in is with Zod. I hope, either in JL or down the line, we get sequences where Bruce, Diana and Arthur are teaching him various fighting styles/techniques.

I hope that the reshoots Gal and Henry are doing for JL include the scenes where Diana is fighting (and beating) Kal, in order to free him from Darkseid's control with the lasso. Because NOTHING else will make sense.,

[Amazon Swordsman]

I'd like a proper name for the character played by Eugene Brave Rock. I don't feel right calling him "chief"--although back in the early 1900s it would be typical for whites to refer to any First Nations man that way.

Gene is from the Blood reserve in Southern Alberta, Canada. In the movie, there's a Navajo rug (I think) in the background, so maybe that's meant to suggest his character is Navajo.

Apparently, "Chief" is somewhat based on Apache Chief that appeared on the 80s Superfriends show. There was also a character by the name of Long Shadow who appeared in JLU, with the super group known as the Ultamen I think. Diana took a liking to him. He had similar powers to Giganta, from what I've seen.

[super_posable_joe]

Loved Wonder Woman! Count me among those who think it's DCEU's best film so far! My favorite parts of the movie are 1) the Amazons 2) the Fight Choreography for the Amazons 3) And Robin Wright as Antiope. I can't believe Princess Buttercup grew up to be such a bad ass. She stole the whole movie for me :-)

It seems the symbol for hope isn't an 'S', after all. It's a 'W'.

'WW' ;-)

[BiteTheBullet]

Loved Wonder Woman! Count me among those who think it's DCEU's best film so far! My favorite parts of the movie are 1) the Amazons 2) the Fight Choreography for the Amazons 3) And Robin Wright as Antiope. I can't believe Princess Buttercup grew up to be such a bad ass. She stole the whole movie for me :-)

It seems the symbol for hope isn't an 'S', after all. It's a 'W'.

'WW' ;-)

Princess Buttercup was sporting some serious 'guns' in the movie!

[super_posable_joe]

She's my crush all over again. As you wish..!

[Amazon Swordsman]

So, Diana is basically a full blown goddess, right? So, what is her domain? If she's a god-killer, then I'd say she's the goddess of balance.

[brettc1]

If Diana was the offspring of Zeus and Hippolyta, she would be a demi-god.

She is not a demi-god.

She is a god, which we know, because she can kill another god.

So that means Zeus brought the clay statue to life.

Right?

If Hippolyta herself were human, that would be right. But Zeus sometimes had affairs with being who were not gods but not human either, and the result was gods.

Heracles was a demigod, but with godlike status.