Wonder Woman Movie Discussion & SPOILERS

[ouroboros]

I never saw why, of all the gods, Ares emerged as the main male antagonist against Diana. Sure Ares is a god of war, but then so is Athena. Why not Hades, Hephaestus, Poseidon, Chronus, Dionysus, Apollo, Hyperion or Prometheus?

In my opinion the Greeks didn't think of Athena as a goddess who inspired war as Ares did. She was, to oversimplify the matter considerably, the incarnation of *techne,* the human ability to invent and improvise in order to overcome obstacles. That's perhaps why she takes such a fancy to the wily Odysseus.

I see why Marston chose Ares/Mars: he wanted to forge a link between the aggressive tendencies brought out in wartime and the anti-feminine repressiveness of patriarchal cultures. But I'd agree that war is not the only evil with which Diana might contend. Still, most comic book writers don't know much about real Greek myth, so we're maybe not missing much by their not giving us another portrait of Dionysus as a bibulous goat-man.

I'm assuming this is a place I can link to my review of the movie. I thought it had almost as many plot-holes as BVS, but it did cover them up better.

[Black Angel]

This isn't the myths

I know i stated that movie wise i get but why let him kill all of them bar zeus seems a waste.

[Jim Kelly]

Maybe the death of the old gods connects with the plot for JUSTICE LEAGUE. In Jack Kirby's Fourth World saga, the old gods died in some kind of Götterdämmerung, which gave way to the rise of the New Gods.

John Byrne had a hard time with this, when he was writing both JACK KIRBY'S FOURTH WORLD and WONDER WOMAN--and devised a complicated compromise to let King Kirby have his truth, but also let the Amazons have some ersatz Olympian gods. However, with the slow schedule of the DCEU movies, it's probably best to concentrate on one set of gods--and the New Gods belong to DC.

[RealWonderman]

Crumbs, just crumbs for Wonder Woman fans!

How come no one seems to answer my question, What if she doesn't fly in Justice League?

I can answer, for me...I don't care.

[RealWonderman]

I studied classic greek myth the amount of times ares got his ass kicked by Gods, Giants and demi Gods just makes him really poor. Movie wise yea he is stronger but to kill all of them by himself yea no don't see it.

We're dealing with myth mixed in comic books, so it's just not the same.

[Jim Kelly]

Maybe Ares had help. The JUSTICE LEAGUE trailer shows the Amazons battling Parademons. Connecting that with the fact Robin Wright says she's in the JUSTICE LEAGUE, one might assume that's a flashback.

[brettc1]

Athena compares to Ares the way Sun Tzu compares to Genghis Khan.

[Lex Luthor]

I never saw why, of all the gods, Ares emerged as the main male antagonist against Diana. Sure Ares is a god of war, but then so is Athena. Why not Hades, Hephaestus, Poseidon, Chronus, Dionysus, Apollo, Hyperion or Prometheus?

Athena is a war god but she's represents wisdom and strategy which are useful and necessary while Ares is about senseless bloodshed which is why Diana stands against him

[Punisher007]

I studied classic greek myth the amount of times ares got his ass kicked by Gods, Giants and demi Gods just makes him really poor. Movie wise yea he is stronger but to kill all of them by himself yea no don't see it.

This isn't the myths, it's comics books loosely inspired by the myths. For example, Thor and Loki aren't adoptive siblings in actual Norse myth. But Marvel made then such in the comics because there's more inherent drama to be mined from it.

So making the God of War a major threat in the comics makes a certain amount of sense. Especially since Ares represents senseless violence and bloodshed, it makes him a fitting opponent for a woman who's all about love and compassion and understanding and is appalled by even the idea of senseless violence and bloodshed (as the film demonstrates over and over again)/

[BiteTheBullet]

Then she doesn't fly, and we will move on from that. She hasn't out right flown for most of her history, than she has for it.

However, she has hang time, and can float, etc. Which is in keeping with her abilities for most of her History. We also have interviews with Patty Jenkins answering that she plans on increasing Diana's powers in the next movie.

You will be able to move on from that won't you? Lets enjoy the win we have with one of our favorite characters.

1st of all, it isn't a complete victory for me, regardless of the success for the movie.

2nd of all, she has flown, with one exception, in all of her last 30+ year history which should be the guiding light for the DCEU. Why make her fly in her printed form as well as animated form just to ignore it in her movie debut?

3rd of all, floating/gliding/hovering just doesn't do it for me. It might for you, and also, if she don't have the power in the Justice League movie, then Patty Jenkins can keep on saying that they will increase Diana's powers but to what effect? That she happens to get more powers when needed to vanquish an enemy, pulling a rabbit out of the hat so to speak when she needs it?

So no, Wonder Woman is my favorite character, but I will not be able to move on from this version if they nerf her power of flight.

Let me know when Superman permanently loses his invulnerability or power of flight, and then I guess I will be satisfied. Or his laser vision.

[BiteTheBullet]

I can answer, for me...I don't care.

So...this is your best answer?

You have watched the movie 10 or more times, have said with no hesitation or deliberation that she can fly, have said that multiple times on this board and you and I have argued the point many times, and your best answer is 'I don't care'.

Why do you protest so much and argue that she can fly based on what you have seen only to counter that with 'I don't care'? Are you hedging your bets in your mind knowing that I might be right and the DCEU has no intention of letting what Diana has done for the last 30+ years and fly?

Again, I want her to fly and I really liked the movie. I just need both to happen to get my satisfaction from it and call it the best superhero movie I have ever seen. But I can't, not just yet. I liked the movie despite the stupid Zeus origin and implications that she wasn't formed from clay.

[Stryfe8]

In my opinion the Greeks didn't think of Athena as a goddess who inspired war as Ares did. She was, to oversimplify the matter considerably, the incarnation of *techne,* the human ability to invent and improvise in order to overcome obstacles. That's perhaps why she takes such a fancy to the wily Odysseus.

I see why Marston chose Ares/Mars: he wanted to forge a link between the aggressive tendencies brought out in wartime and the anti-feminine repressiveness of patriarchal cultures. But I'd agree that war is not the only evil with which Diana might contend. Still, most comic book writers don't know much about real Greek myth, so we're maybe not missing much by their not giving us another portrait of Dionysus as a bibulous goat-man.

I'm assuming this is a place I can link to my review of the movie. I thought it had almost as many plot-holes as BVS, but it did cover them up better.

athena is the goddes of war, but of a different part of war.
athena=discipline & tactics
Ares=violence and bloodlust..
none of those other gods would have fit the role

[brettc1]

So...this is your best answer?

You have watched the movie 10 or more times, have said with no hesitation or deliberation that she can fly, have said that multiple times on this board and you and I have argued the point many times, and your best answer is 'I don't care'.

Why do you protest so much and argue that she can fly based on what you have seen only to counter that with 'I don't care'? Are you hedging your bets in your mind knowing that I might be right and the DCEU has no intention of letting what Diana has done for the last 30+ years and fly?

Again, I want her to fly and I really liked the movie. I just need both to happen to get my satisfaction from it and call it the best superhero movie I have ever seen. But I can't, not just yet. I liked the movie despite the stupid Zeus origin and implications that she wasn't formed from clay.

Years doesnt really factor into it. If something has more weight because it's been around longer then a man binding her bracelets together should render her powerless, because that was cannon for 45 years.

I think she flew, or levitated, but she didn't in the movie because she didn't reach that power level til the very end. I assume you don't like the bracelet blast because it's not from the comic?

[BiteTheBullet]

Years doesnt really factor into it. If something has more weight because it's been around longer then a man binding her bracelets together should render her powerless, because that was cannon for 45 years.

I think she flew, or levitated, but she didn't in the movie because she didn't reach that power level til the very end. I assume you don't like the bracelet blast because it's not from the comic?

I'm not really a fan of the blast from the bracelets, but that doesn't bother me too much. The fact, as people have said, she is still learning her powers is a little bothersome to me. If need be, the writers can just say she is a goddess, she has this new power now to win the fight, just because. The way I saw it in the movie, she was disintegrating projectiles at her from Ares without the use of her bracelets, which is something I did not like. Why go through the bullets and bracelets routine anymore? People will say it was only Ares attack that she was shielded from, but the projectiles he was hurling at her was from the debris on the ground. This was not 'godly' ammunition but just concrete and metal. So I really don't think the 'Ares attack' was special, therefore her shielding worked is a good argument.

Also, 15 years from now, if DC is consistent in her comic book as well as animated adventures, she will have been flying for at least have of her existence. So therefore that will have been in canon for 45 years.

I am also not looking for the Marston interpretation, I am looking at the more modern approach of the last 30 years. So the binding of the bracelets and her going beserk if someone takes off her bracelets can be best left behind. Plus all the kinky stuff with bondage that was associated with her at the beginning.

Unless, of course, this is what you are looking for in Wonder Woman.

[Outside_85]

I never saw why, of all the gods, Ares emerged as the main male antagonist against Diana. Sure Ares is a god of war, but then so is Athena. Why not Hades, Hephaestus, Poseidon, Chronus, Dionysus, Apollo, Hyperion or Prometheus?

I'd say thats partially because war is pretty much all Ares has a hand in, save bravery, while Athena has much more going for her as being the goddess of wisdom, civilization, craftsmanship and so on. And it's kinda the same with all the other gods, they have positive aspects thats more readily brought out than their bad parts.

Also I'd say it's simply part of the normal misunderstanding of Ares' role is compared to Athena. They are both war-gods, but they are both just part of a group of gods that have only a part to do with war as such there was no single god responsible for it... Ares is simply the God of Battle, you had another god for the battlefield itself and another for the destruction of cities and so on. We've just come to this easy perception that Ares is in charge of all of this and just leave it at this.

Originally though I think Marston made Ares Diana's primary antagonist due to his way of thinking that there would be no war if women were in charge. Ares the bloodcurdling masculine war god opposed by a loving woman who could pick a fight with him.