View Poll Results: Is Superman a badass in your eyes.

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  • Yes

    56 65.88%
  • No

    29 34.12%
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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The stories that mention that Superman could rule the planet if he wanted to mostly make sense only in his self contained universe. He's still the singular individual who probably could manage it, but he would be opposed and not necessarily succeed.



    Superman is the exaggerated, metaphorical representation of the working man spirit against the establishment. He was the king of rule breaking back in his day.



    None of those things preclude someone from being badass. It actually makes them more badass, because they are less tedious than the people who know they are badass and act all tough and angsty to "prove" it.



    Superman should be experienced enough that those weaknesses are not guaranteed wins. Waving Kryptonite or a magic wand in his face isn't an automatic victory. Batman, Lex and Waller would be screwed no matter how much Kryptonite they had, and he should be smart enough to know they have it. Because he's met them, so why wouldn't he? He needs to get hit with the stupid stick for them to have an advantage.

    As for superheroes who have surpassed him, that's really only the Spectre, and he's has evolved into something far bigger than the superhero community. As for the rest, that usually relies on reboots, retcons, continuities merging or power level fluctuations to be true, and those don't always stick. For every comic that says there is a hero close to higher than Superman, there will be 10 more than don't back that up. And there is public perception of him being the strongest individual, and that outweighs some random comics only nerds have read.
    I'm talking about the stories not public perception.

    Waller and Luthor would be smart enough to do something more effective than just wave kryptonite in his face and any magic user that can threaten Superman is going to have something with more of a punch than a magic wand. Dr Fate at the very least would be on his level and Shazam has stalemated him at least once.

  2. #137
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    It is "public perception" though because the question is whether or not Superman is considered a "badass."

  3. #138
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    It is "public perception" though because the question is whether or not Superman is considered a "badass."
    Yes, perception shapes all these stories or not. If a writer doesn't feel Supes is badass, he won't be badass. The perception that he's the most powerful also leads to stories that continue to feed into that perception, or challenge that perception. The latter attempts, though frequent and annoying, don't always stick and the perception persists...hence the endless stream of back and forth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Waller and Luthor would be smart enough to do something more effective than just wave kryptonite in his face and any magic user that can threaten Superman is going to have something with more of a punch than a magic wand. Dr Fate at the very least would be on his level and Shazam has stalemated him at least once.
    A Superman who doesn't want to kill people or conquer the world still repeatedly defeats a Lex Luthor and other villains who use more elaborate Kryptonite based schemes and weapons. If he actually stopped holding back and went for the kill, what makes you think Lex or Waller are guaranteed a win just because they are smart and have Kryptonite? Clark is smart too, in fact he is able to outsmart Lex because while the latter is smarter, he also is so prideful he trips himself up. That personality trait wouldn't vanish unless the writer wants it too. Meanwhile, Clark can beat Batman with Croc's "throw a rock at 'em!" method, except he instead can dump a mountain on top of Wayne Manor and call it a day.

    The sorcerers of the DCU are not innately powerful the way Superman is, it's more that they can call upon and manipulate powerful forces. Clark isn't especially weak against magic, he just doesn't have a special invulnerability to it. Someone of Dr. Fate's caliber is very challenging and could defeat him, but not insurmountable. Clark frequently outsmarts Mxy after all, and we have a rather notable example in a story where Myx stops screwing around and could swat Superman like a fly, and Clark and Lois still figure out a way to kill him anyway.

    Captain Marvel's the only hero who I believe should be dead even with Superman in terms of stats...but let's remember that he is not always in the same continuity as Clark. Pre-Crisis, both could have the title of the world's mightiest hero because they weren't on the same Earth.

  4. #139
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Do the people saying this forget that not only does Superman has no less than three notable weaknesses that have been exploited numerous times but also exists in a universe with other superheroes and villains that equal or surpass him in power?
    I can't speak for other people, but when I say stuff like "Clark could rule the world if he wanted to" I'm not forgetting about Diana, Barry, Bruce, Lex, Darkseid, and all the other gods and aliens and super humans out there. I just figure that, if he really, really wanted to? Clark would walk all over them.

    When he's just running around in his trunks and cape he's considered one of the greatest, strongest, most capable and competent heroes on earth. And he doesn't even bother using most of the resources at his disposal.

    If Clark walked out of the Fortress using all the technology he's collected from across the multiverse, most of which is so crazy advanced it might as well be magic, and used his fleet of Superman robots, and let loose all the various animals and creatures he's got in his zoo......what's the plan for dealing with that? And that's just the stuff he can walk around with. He's got planet-sized Phantom Zone projectors, multiversal tuning forks, access to creatures from across space and time who would happily drop what they're doing to help him out, no questions asked. There's a cosmic sword out there and I don't care what the narrative says, Clark probably kept an eye on that thing just to make sure no one else got it. Hell, he could call up Maxima, make a political alliance, and have a galactic empire descend on the planet before anyone knew what hit it.

    I'm not saying it'd be easy, but I honestly don't think the entire planet aligned against him could actually stop Superman. Not if he pulled out all the stops. He's got too much going on, too many counters to the other powerhouses, and if he ever bothered doing anything about his own weaknesses he'd be unstoppable.

    I consider Superman a badass, but not because of all of that. He's a badass because he's got the inner strength to do what he thinks is right and doesn't give a damn if anyone agrees. If the whole world tells him something wrong is something right and tells him to move......well, ya'll know the rest of that quote. Anyone who stands up for what is right and stands for those who can't stand for themselves, is a badass in my opinion. All those other dudes with their kevlar and guns and growls and cigars? They're posers trying way too hard to convince the world they're the tough guys.

    I mean, that's just me of course. And yeah, I'm probably giving Clark way, way too much credit. But let me fangirl a little.
    Last edited by Ascended; 09-19-2018 at 05:57 PM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  5. #140
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
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    I think this depends on what is meant by badass. I am not in favour of an adolescent Superman at all so cringey interps of badass get a no for me. But badass a la PAD interps of Superman tropes like shrugging off a hale of bullets? Absolutely.

    I laugh at Injustice style Superman Rules The World stories. Those only work if he's the ONLY super in the verse. In a shared universe it is simply not believable in any stretch but ESPECIALLY if there is a Captain Marvel or a Wonder Woman.

  6. #141
    Astonishing Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I can't speak for other people, but when I say stuff like "Clark could rule the world if he wanted to" I'm not forgetting about Diana, Barry, Bruce, Lex, Darkseid, and all the other gods and aliens and super humans out there. I just figure that, if he really, really wanted to? Clark would walk all over them.

    When he's just running around in his trunks and cape he's considered one of the greatest, strongest, most capable and competent heroes on earth. And he doesn't even bother using most of the resources at his disposal.

    If Clark walked out of the Fortress using all the technology he's collected from across the multiverse, most of which is so crazy advanced it might as well be magic, and used his fleet of Superman robots, and let loose all the various animals and creatures he's got in his zoo......what's the plan for dealing with that? And that's just the stuff he can walk around with. He's got planet-sized Phantom Zone projectors, multiversal tuning forks, access to creatures from across space and time who would happily drop what they're doing to help him out, no questions asked. There's a cosmic sword out there and I don't care what the narrative says, Clark probably kept an eye on that thing just to make sure no one else got it. Hell, he could call up Maxima, make a political alliance, and have a galactic empire descend on the planet before anyone knew what hit it.

    I'm not saying it'd be easy, but I honestly don't think the entire planet aligned against him could actually stop Superman. Not if he pulled out all the stops. He's got too much going on, too many counters to the other powerhouses, and if he ever bothered doing anything about his own weaknesses he'd be unstoppable.

    I consider Superman a badass, but not because of all of that. He's a badass because he's got the inner strength to do what he thinks is right and doesn't give a damn if anyone agrees. If the whole world tells him something wrong is something right and tells him to move......well, ya'll know the rest of that quote. Anyone who stands up for what is right and stands for those who can't stand for themselves, is a badass in my opinion. All those other dudes with their kevlar and guns and growls and cigars? They're posers trying way too hard to convince the world they're the tough guys.

    I mean, that's just me of course. And yeah, I'm probably giving Clark way, way too much credit. But let me fangirl a little.
    This. I can't think of any DC hero with to a more powerful arsenal than Superman. Hell, he could just fly to space, dive the fastest he can and hit the Earth with his full force, comet style, he would kill half the world population that way.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Yes, perception shapes all these stories or not. If a writer doesn't feel Supes is badass, he won't be badass. The perception that he's the most powerful also leads to stories that continue to feed into that perception, or challenge that perception. The latter attempts, though frequent and annoying, don't always stick and the perception persists...hence the endless stream of back and forth.



    A Superman who doesn't want to kill people or conquer the world still repeatedly defeats a Lex Luthor and other villains who use more elaborate Kryptonite based schemes and weapons. If he actually stopped holding back and went for the kill, what makes you think Lex or Waller are guaranteed a win just because they are smart and have Kryptonite? Clark is smart too, in fact he is able to outsmart Lex because while the latter is smarter, he also is so prideful he trips himself up. That personality trait wouldn't vanish unless the writer wants it too. Meanwhile, Clark can beat Batman with Croc's "throw a rock at 'em!" method, except he instead can dump a mountain on top of Wayne Manor and call it a day.

    The sorcerers of the DCU are not innately powerful the way Superman is, it's more that they can call upon and manipulate powerful forces. Clark isn't especially weak against magic, he just doesn't have a special invulnerability to it. Someone of Dr. Fate's caliber is very challenging and could defeat him, but not insurmountable. Clark frequently outsmarts Mxy after all, and we have a rather notable example in a story where Myx stops screwing around and could swat Superman like a fly, and Clark and Lois still figure out a way to kill him anyway.

    Captain Marvel's the only hero who I believe should be dead even with Superman in terms of stats...but let's remember that he is not always in the same continuity as Clark. Pre-Crisis, both could have the title of the world's mightiest hero because they weren't on the same Earth.
    Most stories depicting Superman as the most powerful being on Earth come from his own book.

    Remember Homo Magi? Those guys who can innately manipulate magic? Those exist in the DCU. We have six Green Lanterns, no less than three Speed Force users active at a time (remember when Bart, Wally and Barry pulled Superboy Prime into the Speed Force? It actually made him terrified of Speed Force channellers for a time) and this isn't even getting into all the other forces that have a vested interest in not having Superman take over the world if only because they want it for themselves like Black Adam, Zod, Sinestro, Trigon, the Olympians etc. Or allies like New Genesis and the Green Lantern Corps.


    Just how smart Superman is depends heavily on the writer and he is rarely depicted as the smartest guy is the room.

    The only way a rogue Superman has a prayer of winning is if the majority of superheroes join him and these guys tend to be smarter than that.

    Superman is a hell of a challenge. I'm not taking that from him. But he isn't invincible.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 09-19-2018 at 11:13 PM.

  8. #143
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post


    None of those things preclude someone from being badass. It actually makes them more badass, because they are less tedious than the people who know they are badass and act all tough and angsty to "prove" it.
    Actually they do and I had typed out this long response but I am going keep it simple.We all know the descriptors,the look and general swag for Badass, Superman doesn't fit those descriptors. Even you know the descriptors but are choosing to but negative on them in effort to separate supes from those traits And yes Dark, Edgy, Intense, Jerk, Smartass, Brooding,Rule breaking are general parts of the "BAD"ass package. And we can do test about pointing about what people think as badass and we know what will happen.Which one of this pics will most people call Badass?

    Clus3ZhVEAA8sEj.jpg
    1429931714-man-of-steel-superman.jpg

    I think people are mistaken "cool moments" or want superman to been seen as "cool" in era where his main traits aren't seen as "cool" by some. Superman is not "Badass" but in the same vein when you are talking about the greatest "heroes" there is a reason why Superman, Captain America, Spiderman, etc are seen as more heroic than say Wolverine, Deadpool,Batman. A literal break down of the word is BAD and ASS words which are words you wouldn't describe Superman as heck Superman saying that "He is a Badass" would feel awkward. I will end with Comic Aquaman was seen as joke by many but his movie appearance( after people got the Khalo drago/Conan/Ronon Dex jokes out of their system) was described over and over with one word.

    cf001783f82d37d19fce77b8d0be6ef9.jpg
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 09-20-2018 at 02:42 AM.

  9. #144
    Fantastic Member jimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ekrolo2 View Post
    The Batman double standard is very much an actual thing. He's the guy who gets praised as "the most human of all DC superheroes" but then everyone expects and wants to write him as an one-man army who can murder stomp all of fiction ever and the second he isn't murder stomping everything from Odysseus to whatever is the latest thing in entertainment, you're doing him wrong.
    The absolute irony in all of this Batman -hodgepodge- double standard etc..etc.. with some fans, is that these people have created, at the core essence, the heighten embodiment of the all conquering, 360 degree mentally, spiritual and physically superior -one man gang - aka they shaped and molded their very own Superman whose origin originates from Earth instead of Krypton as the place of Origin is a real BIG DEAL for some as an "Identification factor".


    So....with a "slight of hand" to exchange a bunch of "primary colors" for dark palette theme of "charcoal grey and black"- Batman is Superman, because logically, it would take a "Superman" to do and accomplish what he (The Batman) does.

  10. #145
    Fantastic Member jimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Actually they do and I had typed out this long response but I am going keep it simple.We all know the descriptors,the look and general swag for Badass, Superman doesn't fit those descriptors. Even you know the descriptors but are choosing to but negative on them in effort to separate supes from those traits And yes Dark, Edgy, Intense, Jerk, Smartass, Brooding,Rule breaking are general parts of the "BAD"ass package. And we can do test about pointing about what people think as badass and we know what will happen.Which one of this pics will most people call Badass?

    Clus3ZhVEAA8sEj.jpg
    1429931714-man-of-steel-superman.jpg

    I think people are mistaken "cool moments" or want superman to been seen as "cool" in era where his main traits aren't seen as "cool" by some. Superman is not "Badass" but in the same vein when you are talking about the greatest "heroes" there is a reason why Superman, Captain America, Spiderman, etc are seen as more heroic than say Wolverine, Deadpool,Batman. A literal break down of the word is BAD and ASS words which are words you wouldn't describe Superman as heck Superman saying that "He is a Badass" would feel awkward. I will end with Comic Aquaman was seen as joke by many but his movie appearance( after people got the Khalo drago/Conan/Ronon Dex jokes out of their system) was described over and over with one word.

    cf001783f82d37d19fce77b8d0be6ef9.jpg


    Well... with words being words and/or for words sake "Bad-Ass" a term being, descriptive of one's attitude of a "hard boiled ham and egger" who stood for "No nonsense in getting things done effectively and efficiently that is the way I see Superman, when dealing with the criminal elements / natural disasters.

    Personally, I take my overall Superman / Clark Kent cue from the "Adventures of Superman" TV SHOW, the portrayal of the character is solid especially the first season.

  11. #146
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Most stories depicting Superman as the most powerful being on Earth come from his own book.
    And for several decades it was pretty much the undisputed truth across their entire line of books, not just his. At least that he was the most powerful individual hero for the continuity he was in. It's been off and on since.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Remember Homo Magi? Those guys who can innately manipulate magic? Those exist in the DCU. We have six Green Lanterns, no less than three Speed Force users active at a time (remember when Bart, Wally and Barry pulled Superboy Prime into the Speed Force? It actually made him terrified of Speed Force channellers for a time) and this isn't even getting into all the other forces that have a vested interest in not having Superman take over the world if only because they want it for themselves like Black Adam, Zod, Sinestro, Trigon, the Olympians etc. Or allies like New Genesis and the Green Lantern Corps.
    All of those are not going to be easy challenges, but not insurmountable. Mxy is innately magical and probably the most powerful being the DCU. The speedsters can cause a lot of damage and are very difficult to grab, but if he tags them they are screwed. Superman is not Superboy Prime. For some of the villains, Zod may fall in line or the rest of the Phantom Zone criminals could side against him if they decide they like Superman more, Black Adam would be a big threat but that depends on the continuity and he may not even be on the same Earth anyway, Trigon depends on DC remembering he exists or whether he's alive this week or not, etc. Olympian Gods are not impossible to kill, Cheetah just killed one this week, and they tend to not interfere when Earth is threatened by invaders all that much anyway. New Genesis and the Green Lantern Corps are the biggest threats, but Superman may not be without allies of his own depending on how the story is told, and not necessarily other heroes from the community.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Just how smart Superman is depends heavily on the writer and he is rarely depicted as the smartest guy is the room.
    How powerful other heroes are in relation to Superman heavily depends on the writer as well And they've tended to dumb Superman down to make other heroes stand out, particularly Batman. I think any depiction that suggests Superman is willing to move the Earth out of the way of a meteor just so Batman can call him out for being a dumbass can be dismissed immediately. And he doesn't have to be smarter than Lex to repeatedly beat him. It's the combination of brains and brawn that make Superman very dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The only way a rogue Superman has a prayer of winning is if the majority of superheroes join him and these guys tend to be smarter than that.
    Only if he's stupid enough to attack the whole superhero community at once, and that assumes he is without resources from his own corner of the DCU to back him up. Some alliances with the Phantom Zone criminals and/or Maxima's forces, along with the beasts in the Zoo and whatever other weapons he has in the Fortress could pose a pretty big challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Superman is a hell of a challenge. I'm not taking that from him. But he isn't invincible.
    Neither are the hypothetical opposing forces. It all depends on how it is written, a writer can basically do anything they want and it could come out making sense within the rules established by previous lore.

  12. #147
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Superman saying that "He is a Badass" would feel awkward.
    Any self proclaiming badass is awkward and less true with each claim.

    I like how you break down the term though, which is a hilarious thing I hadn't considered. Surely that's not a way to go about describing any regular Superman but when you mention how he has those moments instead of having that "badass" default I think that goes toward describing why many of us here do like him best. He's only as edgy as he needs to be, when he needs to be.

    Others in the genre don't know when to stop and lay it on too thick. We're at a point where Batman is saying unedited expletives while his penis is in full view of the reader, right before he goes to check out a church violated by a joker. Come on Bruce, you're on Kellogg's boxes. It ultimately looks like:


  13. #148
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I consider Batman more badass in the 70s when he was serious, but not TOO serious. It helped the moments stand out more.

  14. #149
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    I see Batman as someone whose primary struggle in life is trying to measure up to a standard that he set for himself to be unattainable. It' not realistic, he knows that, but he's trying to force himself to be more than he is. That doesn't make him a "badass". In many ways it makes him an emo wanna-be.

    Batman's rogues get knocked down like bowling pins but with few exception come back for more incessantly. Superman has on many occasions defeated enemies in ways that made them never want to fight him again. Not because they're terrified of him... which, let's face it, doesn't work for Batman, but because they no longer want to be supervillains.

  15. #150
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Haha yeah. Great post, Ascended.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    This. I can't think of any DC hero with to a more powerful arsenal than Superman. Hell, he could just fly to space, dive the fastest he can and hit the Earth with his full force, comet style, he would kill half the world population that way.
    I think Supes looks like a badass here.


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