Tom King+Mitch Gerad To Write/Draw Mister Miracle

[kilderkin]

What would be the point of laying out exactly what it was about?

Would it actually be better than what each reader has in his or her mind?

Yes to me it would, coz for me, if the writer hadn't put in the actual conclusion, it may as well be a fan fic, effectively I could have just read a writer's premise, skipped the expense and made up any old ending myself

As I've said, opinion s vary

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Yes to me it would, coz for me, if the writer hadn't put in the actual conclusion, it may as well be a fan fic, effectively I could have just read a writer's premise, skipped the expense and made up any old ending myself

As I've said, opinion s vary

Sorry to dredge up this thread once again but I have to reply to this, especially after rereading issues 12. That you don't like open endings is fine - I know loads of people whose opinions I respect who are very much with you on this - but I have to take an issue with your assertion that an open ending is not an ending and, worse, that the only reason a writer might go for an open ending is because they're either lazy or don't have an actual ending planned (though I'm talking here more about the general "you" that holds these views than you specifically).

I do echo the post from a bunch of pages back that you should really listen to the iFanboy discussion on the issue (and listen to teh show in general, it's great) as it presents both a very solid explanation of what happened in the issue on a narrative level (Conor) and a look at the issue from a more metaphorical level, specifically from the point of view of the reader's own situation (Josh). And, on metatextual level, King, through Oberon, is saying that it doesn't matter how this fits into continuity because Scott is a) a god and b) a comic book character and the fictional universe he lives in is so constantly being rebooted that there's no real division between what's real and what's not. Brilliantly, King's use of different characters to explain what's happening to Scott can be read as various alternate possibilities of wht happened to Scott (Scott killing himself, being caught in the Omega sanction, being in heaven, being in hell) or it can be read as all of these things happening, plainly, in the order in which it is described. Either version works and neither version matters beyond what we, as readers, brings to it. It's not that it has no ending, it's that it has multiple endings - any of which can be true but the only thing that really matters is which (perfectly valid) ending(s) resonates most deeply with you.

The point of Mister Miracle, ultimately, isn't to provide clear narrative answers but to work as a Rorschach test whose meaning differs according to the point of view of whoever reads it - and, indeed, for King and Gerads themselves. Those possibilities are offered in the text but deciding which one is "true" actually is in the eye of the beholder. Here's the important part, though: just because you don't like this sort of ending doesn't mean that it's not an ending. It may not be an ending that gives a simple explanation of everything that happened but is one steeped in metaphor, symbolism and an ambiguity that allows the reader to bring their own views onto the work that may or may not be shared by the author but is specifically meant to be open to reader interpretation. It's an ending that doesn't climax with a neat resolution to the narrative but with "Darkseid is, but so are we", which is the final summation of what the series stood for, thematically - or at least of some of the themes.

Again, I have no problem with hating that kind of ending or being massively disappointed with it but I think it's massively unfair to suggest that the series is therefore no more than "fanfiction" or, worse, that it's the work of an uncommited writer who can't bring his own story to a close. Mister Miracle is a challenging, warped and at times fairly abstract series that happens to be grounded in the most reconizably human of emotions and razor-sharp storytelling that makes the most of the comic book medium. Hating it is perfectly fine but suggesting that King and Gerads didn't throw their all into creating it strikes me as unfair, as is suggesting that what they created is "pointless", just because it is unconventional in its telling.

And sorry if this comes across like I'm picking on you just for having a different opinion to me but this general dismissal of open endings as being a valid way of ending a story clearly does get my goat - and I've seen that at least implied a number of times throughout this thread so I wanted to address it. Your post just happened to be the most recent...

[CaptCleghorn]

For those who think of this as not being a dream, what other reason could King and Gerads have for taking the Dallas shower scene in exact detail (except for the differences in Barda's and Pam's sleeping apparel)? This is a HUGE "IT WAS ALL A DREAM!

Scott's capable of escaping marriage and family life. But then again, aren't we all?

I'm amazed this interpretation isn't readily accepted by more people as it's pretty damn obvious. Of course, alternate ideas are certainly welcome along with reasoning for going that way. But come on, I also think open-ended is a valid way to end a story, but this ain't that.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

For those who think of this as not being a dream, what other reason could King and Gerads have for taking the Dallas shower scene in exact detail (except for the differences in Barda's and Pam's sleeping apparel)? This is a HUGE "IT WAS ALL A DREAM!

Scott's capable of escaping marriage and family life. But then again, aren't we all?

I'm amazed this interpretation isn't readily accepted by more people as it's pretty damn obvious. Of course, alternate ideas are certainly welcome along with reasoning for going that way. But come on, I also think open-ended is a valid way to end a story, but this ain't that.

It certainly could be a dream. But considering the nature of the New Gods, it could well be something else, like the Omega Sanction or a Jacob's Ladder type pergatory too.

[Robotman]

Nice interview with Tom King about Mister Miracle.

https://www.newsarama.com/43904-what...r-miracle.html

[RBerman]

Reading back through it, it's more and more obvious that Scott succeeded at suicide after Barda left him, and he's having his "For the Man Who Has Everything" moment, fantasizing a world in which he got the girl, got the crown, defeated Darkseid, and raised a family successfully, with Funky Flashman domesticated as his babysitter, finally making peace between Stan and Jack. The "Bobby Ewing in the shower" moment is evidence of the death and dream themes, and there's plenty of dialogue about it throughout as well.

During his trial: "Hate made you kill yourself." "True."
Funky Flashman: "The angle we're going to take is-- suicide! You're on the record saying you tried to escape death! Tried! By killing yourself! So we just lean into that!"

And so on. But (both as an Escape Artist and as a New God) he's also mulling over whether to stay here, and Metron (either really, or just in his imagination) appears to call him back to the DCU. So we're left with the possibility (and probably the inevitability) that he will at some point reject the Death Trap and re-enter what Grant Morrison called "the Life Trap" in his Seven Soldiers take on Mister Miracle. I like the analogy of the play that ends with the man's hand upon the doorknob, and all of the "blue eyes/brown eyes" duality signals not just the irreality of the story but also the Schrodinger-like indeterminacy of the outcome.

Funky Flashman: "You're dead! Then you escape! Or you don't escape! It's up to you!"

[BatmanJones]

Yes to me it would, coz for me, if the writer hadn't put in the actual conclusion, it may as well be a fan fic, effectively I could have just read a writer's premise, skipped the expense and made up any old ending myself

As I've said, opinion s vary

You should check out some Samuel Beckett.

[Lightning Rider]

Reading back through it, it's more and more obvious that Scott succeeded at suicide after Barda left him, and he's having his "For the Man Who Has Everything" moment, fantasizing a world in which he got the girl, got the crown, defeated Darkseid, and raised a family successfully, with Funky Flashman domesticated as his babysitter, finally making peace between Stan and Jack. The "Bobby Ewing in the shower" moment is evidence of the death and dream themes, and there's plenty of dialogue about it throughout as well.

During his trial: "Hate made you kill yourself." "True."
Funky Flashman: "The angle we're going to take is-- suicide! You're on the record saying you tried to escape death! Tried! By killing yourself! So we just lean into that!"

And so on. But (both as an Escape Artist and as a New God) he's also mulling over whether to stay here, and Metron (either really, or just in his imagination) appears to call him back to the DCU. So we're left with the possibility (and probably the inevitability) that he will at some point reject the Death Trap and re-enter what Grant Morrison called "the Life Trap" in his Seven Soldiers take on Mister Miracle. I like the analogy of the play that ends with the man's hand upon the doorknob, and all of the "blue eyes/brown eyes" duality signals not just the irreality of the story but also the Schrodinger-like indeterminacy of the outcome.

Funky Flashman: "You're dead! Then you escape! Or you don't escape! It's up to you!"

Yeah, I haven't read through it but those clues seem to point to that. I like how you describe the cool thematically spot on ambiguity of the ending.