Tom King+Mitch Gerad To Write/Draw Mister Miracle

[TooFlyToFail]

Maybe my problem is that I feel that King really is saying that...and I think that's a really wrong and horrible meaning. But I like Tom King, so I want him to be saying something good and true and beautiful.

Tbh, I don't see how this story could have had a happy ending.

[millernumber1]

Tbh, I don't see how this story could have had a happy ending.

I'm not asking for happy. I'd be hard pressed to describe Omega Men or Vision as happy endings. But they did say true and beautiful things about love, loss, war, religion, and politics.

Mister Miracle is saying...what? "Running away is good?" That doesn't seem true or beautiful to me.

[kilderkin]

Should comics not aspire to be something greater? Or should the funnybooks just be 4-color worlds of punching things?

It's all subjective, so if it doesn't work for you then it doesn't work for you; but knocking the series because it tried to be something greater than the norm is a weird hill to stand on.

of course it's subjective and I was pointing out how the ending felt to me

Or I should say, how it left me feeling

and I didn't knock the series I did knock the ending

I have said it started well, but I felt the ending was hugely disapointing for me

if you liked it, that's cool, but fir me this wasn't even an actual ending, it's no further on from where it started really, 12 issues to effectively go nowhere

imo

As for being more that punching people, that's blasé, I want a good story, imo this ending really wasn't an ending as more than a "couldn't figure out what it wanted to be so just stopped"

For all the internal character discussion, actually on the page, he's not really any different and we still don't know his situation

which I didn't like, there was plenty of time to get past this point and have some clarity

This isn't anything more than a maybe it is/maybe it isn't

that never really works for me and it don't work for me here

If you liked it I'm glad for you

[kilderkin]

How is it frustrating? It about a hero who will always escape whatever is negatively affecting him at the time. That's a never ending battle for a person that refuses to truly deal with his issues. Thus there would never be a definitive ending.

This is a character study of Scott's mindset. It was always that. It's not about being intelligent, or pretentious, it's just that.

"This is superheroes, not some opus"

Thank god you're not in charge of creative. Why did you pick up this book knowing who was writing it? Anyone familiar with King knows he doesn't write the typical hero story, and loves tearing the hero down to human, false levels of introspection. He loves to focus on the trauma that they deal with, and explore that through the characters' characteristics. He's basically the slap of reality that reminds you that these people are not well, that their epic lives is only making it worse.

You want to read books that ignore the trauma, and writes the characters as perfect beings? Read something else, as these stories are the extreme minority in comics. Not saying don't read it, tho, just you're complaining about something that was obvious. You're reading a King story about a dude who defining aspect is that he's child-like in nature and would rather run away/escape from his issues.

Like, come on....you chose to waste your money on the exact kind of story you knew you weren't going to like.

Firstly I picked it up coz I love scott and the new gods

When it started I quite liked what I had seen of king, that's not the case now not just for this book

If this is a study of his mind set that does not require an ending where we as readers are not really any further down the path than at the start, there are many points left unclear, and whilst that may be ok with you it's not for me, it's ok that we don't agree on that

it frustrates me because this was 12 issues of what effectively ends on a nonsense ending with no real clarity or conclusions, and I don't like that, I hoped for better

and in fairness, I hoped it woukd be better than this, as I felt it started well and hoped it would end as such, whilst it was unclear along the way, there was more than enough time to come to a definitive conclusion

the writer didn't want to, Ok, I reserve the right not to like that and to say so

It's not wrong that he wrote this, just as it's not wrong that I, as a consumer gave it the full try and supported an alternative story

you know, like a fan of the character and compony might do

Have I enjoyed part of it, the first half or so sure

the conclusion not at all

if you did, good for you I'm glad, I'm also ok saying I didn't

Lesson learned for me is skip tom king from now on, why I haven't looked at the current crisis book

and my point about the opus was a simple one, and neither of us are in charge of creative so that's all cool too

[Clark_Kent]

of course it's subjective and I was pointing out how the ending felt to me

Or I should say, how it left me feeling

and I didn't knock the series I did knock the ending

I have said it started well, but I felt the ending was hugely disapointing for me

if you liked it, that's cool, but fir me this wasn't even an actual ending, it's no further on from where it started really, 12 issues to effectively go nowhere

imo

As for being more that punching people, that's blasé, I want a good story, imo this ending really wasn't an ending as more than a "couldn't figure out what it wanted to be so just stopped"

For all the internal character discussion, actually on the page, he's not really any different and we still don't know his situation

which I didn't like, there was plenty of time to get past this point and have some clarity

This isn't anything more than a maybe it is/maybe it isn't

that never really works for me and it don't work for me here

If you liked it I'm glad for you

And that's totally cool that you didn't care for it. My post was in response to the part of your post that I put in bold. I wasn't disagreeing with your dislike, I was questioning the comment of "this is Superheroes not some opus" because that implies the story should have been dumbed down, or at least made simpler. Hence my question, "should comics not aspire to be something greater?" I won't lie & say I understood everything I just read, and I haven't even decided if I liked it or not; but attempting to be "an opus" is never a bad thing. Whether it was or not is up for debate, but attempting is never a negative.

[kilderkin]

And that's totally cool that you didn't care for it. My post was in response to the part of your post that I put in bold. I wasn't disagreeing with your dislike, I was questioning the comment of "this is Superheroes not some opus" because that implies the story should have been dumbed down, or at least made simpler. Hence my question, "should comics not aspire to be something greater?" I won't lie & say I understood everything I just read, and I haven't even decided if I liked it or not; but attempting to be "an opus" is never a bad thing. Whether it was or not is up for debate, but attempting is never a negative.

Okay fair enough

my point there was really to say that I felt the story imo tried to be more than it really was and in my view failed

I'm not saying comics can't be that, I'm saying that imo I felt king was trying to do something like that and failed in the ending here

Not to say that shouldn't be tried, just that in my view it did not succeed

of course that's just how I felt about it, and that was all I was saying

It wasn't meant about comics as a whole

Although I do think that sometimes trying to be an opus for example can be a mistake, sometimes a simple straight forward story is great and going beyond that is detrimental to a satisfactory book

But I'm not saying comics can't do that

Just that imo he tried to do that and at the last hurdle fell

Others will disagree with this and that's cool

[king81992]

I'm not asking for happy. I'd be hard pressed to describe Omega Men or Vision as happy endings. But they did say true and beautiful things about love, loss, war, religion, and politics.

Mister Miracle is saying...what? "Running away is good?" That doesn't seem true or beautiful to me.

I don't think that King ever intended to say anything(or at least anything positive) with Mr.Miracle. He might be making fun of the idea that 'running away is good' but the whole series feels more style than substance.

[millernumber1]

I don't think that King ever intended to say anything(or at least anything positive) with Mr.Miracle. He might be making fun of the idea that 'running away is good' but the whole series feels more style than substance.

Well, I'm still trying to find a more valueable way to read it.

[kilderkin]

I don't think that King ever intended to say anything(or at least anything positive) with Mr.Miracle. He might be making fun of the idea that 'running away is good' but the whole series feels more style than substance.

That's how it's ended for me

It started strongly but the ending has fell very flat imo

[Robotman]

Some more observations about issue 12. Funny to see some comedians make a cameo at the beginning. Looked like Scott Aukerman, Adam Scott, Jason Mantzoukas, Paul F. Thompkins, Paul Scheer, and I didn’t recognize the others. Obviously Dan Didio and Jim Lee laughing it up.

“ Shut the &$%# up Lightray!” cracked me up. Very reminiscent of Big Lebowski.

Loved that they named their daughter after Kirby’s wife.

[whiterabbit]

I'm not asking for happy. I'd be hard pressed to describe Omega Men or Vision as happy endings. But they did say true and beautiful things about love, loss, war, religion, and politics.

Mister Miracle is saying...what? "Running away is good?" That doesn't seem true or beautiful to me.

You can always say the point of the book was asking if Mister Miracle could escape intentionally dying, which is a trap no one can escape from. The answer is: only if he wants to escape. Following his adventure for 12 issues was just showing what would happen if things played out a certain way in his life and the shoes were on the other foot.

His father died and his brother became king, he then became king himself, he had a son and the same circumstances that led to his own adoption came up and he rejected the notion of repeating it, he killed his own adoptive father to end the war. It shows the difficulties of being Higherfather and how they both reacted differently. Scott couldn't bring himself to abandon his son, despite millions and millions of lives depending on it, while Highfather did do it. Scott is a god who chooses to live in the mundane than being a higher lifeform. He could put a crown on his head and order universes to bow, but chooses to mow his grass and play with his son.

[millernumber1]

You can always say the point of the book was asking if Mister Miracle could escape intentionally dying, which is a trap no one can escape from. The answer is: only if he wants to escape. Following his adventure for 12 issues was just showing what would happen if things played out a certain way in his life and the shoes were on the other foot.

His father died and his brother became king, he then became king himself, he had a son and the same circumstances that led to his own adoption came up and he rejected the notion of repeating it, he killed his own adoptive father to end the war. It shows the difficulties of being Higherfather and how they both reacted differently. Scott couldn't bring himself to abandon his son, despite millions and millions of lives depending on it, while Highfather did do it. Scott is a god who chooses to live in the mundane than being a higher lifeform. He could put a crown on his head and order universes to bow, but chooses to mow his grass and play with his son.

I wish I felt that message more strongly. I think that is a worthwhile message...but too many things work against that being what King is leaving us with. The issue of Barda - real or not? Eye color? The issue of why the victory over Darkseid is the penultimate, and not the final issue. The issue of whether he's dead or not.

[CaptCleghorn]

I wish I felt that message more strongly. I think that is a worthwhile message...but too many things work against that being what King is leaving us with. The issue of Barda - real or not? Eye color? The issue of why the victory over Darkseid is the penultimate, and not the final issue. The issue of whether he's dead or not.

This, at least, is a pretty basic and simple answer. The purpose of the story wasn't setting up Scott vs Darkseid, it was Scott and whatever the world he was trying to escape/decided to stay in mess. A basic good guy vs bad guy story ends with the good guy winning and the bad guy losing. Regardless of how you felt about this tale, love or hate it, it wasn't a standard good guy vs bad guy fight.

Did Scott end up in a purgatory after a suicide attempt? Is he actually being mind%^$#ed by the Lump?

Or is this an actual end and nothing more will be said?
As seen in the Beat: http://www.comicsbeat.com/nycc-18-to...-fourth-world/
http://www.comicsbeat.com/nycc-2018-...otlight-panel/

As The Beat previously reported, the upcoming twelfth issue of Mister Miracle finally reveals what Jack Kirby intended for the Fourth World and finishes what King and Gerads feel is their definitive take on the New Gods.

[millernumber1]

I got the whole "Fourth World is what we're creating" - a very existentialist answer, and very Tom King-ian, based on his Green Lantern one-shot, and honestly most of what he's written.

Maybe part of the problem I've been fumbling to articulate is that when I finished Omega Men and Vision, I was emotionally shattered. In pain but loving it.

Here...I'm just kinda numb. And I feel like I felt before reading it, and I wanted to be changed.

[CaptCleghorn]

I just reread the last page. Now we know why Darkseid would be seen sitting in everyone's living rooms on the sofa.

He's ^%$#ing with their remotes.

He is an evil dude.