Thread Drift: Fans, Professionals and Online Decorum

[Metamorphosis]

I saw that whole exchange and I think its false to call it a "screaming match". They disagreed but Slott was never outright rude just honest. And I am sorry but have you ever been to crawlspace? That is pretty much a unified hivemind when it comes to Slott and his work. And we have had examples on here of posters being caught using different accounts and handleds to yell at Slott before.

Once again: one of the writer's biggest fans here is also an article contributor to the site and a very frequent presence on the message board, so you're completely wrong here at best, and simply spreading disinformation at worst.

[Bor]

Once again: one of the writer's biggest fans here is also an article contributor to the site and a very frequent presence on the message board, so you're completely wrong here at best, and simply spreading disinformation at worst.

You have one poster who is not like that. Big deal. I said "pretty much" because I know there are good posters there to. But if you want to pretend that there isnt a general "lets hate on Slott/post OMD Spidey" over there you are kidding yourself. I am not wrong nor am I spreading misinformation.

If you want to pretend that there isnt a whole lot of very loud bashing poster over there you are fooling yourself.

I am nether lying nor spreading misinformation here I am just not defending what I see as appaling ridicules behavour.

If you want to pretend Crawlspace is not full of these then go ahead. But dont expect the rest of us to deny what is right there for everyone to see.

[Metamorphosis]

You have one poster who is not like that. Big deal. I said "pretty much" because I know there are good posters there to. But if you want to pretend that there isnt a general "lets hate on Slott/post OMD Spidey" over there you are kidding yourself. I am not wrong nor am I spreading misinformation.

If you want to pretend that there isnt a whole lot of very loud bashing poster over there, or you are fooling yourself.

I am nether lying nor spreading misinformation here I am just not defending what I see as appaling ridicules behavour.

If you want to pretend Crawlspace is not full of these then go ahead. But dont expect the rest of us to deny what is right there for everyone to see.

Uh--I wonder if you've ever even been on there, or just repeating the mantras you see here.

They have a multitude of writers on the front page alone who--gasp--actually have their own opinions, think for themselves, and even give Slott Spider-Man good reviews.

It's almost like they're not some kind of malicious hivemind entity that does nothing but evil.

But I guess it's far easier these days to mischaracterize, demonize and parrot false claims than actually know what you're talking about.

[Bor]

Metamorphosis:

I have. I use to post there for a couple of yeasr several years ago. I still go there from time to time and while I completely acknowledge there are some good posters and good articles the message board in general is, to me atleast, so full of people with a "lets hate just because" mentality. A lot more so then here.

As for that last sentence there: I geuss its easier to disregard how things actual are instead of trying to form a fair view of things.

[Bor]

I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt Matamorposis and check out Crawlspace. After reading several different threads I maintain what I said before.
There are some good and insightful posts, but a WHOLE lot of it is stuff like saying Slott "interjects himself into online fan discussions,and abuses his authority as a Marvel employee through online bullying,defamation of character and his arrogant and rude behavior towards criticism." or worse stuff about the man, his work or his character. I saw everything from personal attacks directed at his weigh to him supposedly hating MJ and its because of him the marrige is not back yet because he holds ASM "as a hostage" instead of given it to creator who would bring back the marrige for sure.
If you think statements like that are a fair assesment of Slotts interaction with fans then I dont really know what to tell you except I highly disagree and the fact that noone here has been willing to provide a specific example to support their claims tells me all I need to know.

[Mister Mets]

A professional is a known entity of whom reasonable expectations can be had.

Most everyone else is some random person. They could be a kid, dyslexic, have emotional, mental, or psychological deficiencies. You don't know. But it's good to keep in mind that you don't know who you're interacting with. That poster you're laying into might have a story that will make you feel like a complete heel if you hear it.

A professional is someone who is high-functioning enough to have developed a measure of success, but that doesn't mean you know everything about their behavior. Catherine Zeta Jones was a celebrity for decades before she admit she suffered from bipolar disorder. There are some people in comics (not on the Spider-Man books) who have said some really weird stuff online, that later turns out to be due to a disorder/ drug interaction.

While the anonymous people we interact with online might have some kind of issue, you shouldn't feel like a heel for calling them out. Someone may be a stoned teenager who thinks that the government is using mind control rays, but they should still be polite when speaking online.

That said, we should be careful about how we call people out (IE- it can be offputting for someone for whom English is a third language to be corrected on grammar/ typos) and the battles we pick.

[WebLurker]

I saw that whole exchange and I think its false to call it a "screaming match". They disagreed but Slott was never outright rude just honest.

Okay, I remember it differently. I don't know how to verify which one of us has the better memory (if the truth is somewhere in the middle).

And I am sorry but have you ever been to crawlspace?

Yeah, I read the reviews often on.

That is pretty much a unified hivemind when it comes to Slott and his work.

Okay, kind of important here, are we taking about the website itself, or its forum? I don't visit the forum, just the main site.

And we have had examples on here of posters being caught using different accounts and handleds to yell at Slott before.

The internet is a useful took that's easily abused, huh?

Again: example please. You state things but do not provide example.

Without digging through pages of old postings, that's all I've got, unless something new turns up (I am limiting it to things that aren't hearsay, so that YouTuber's response over Slott's harassing him in regards to a charity run aren't counted). Also, I get the sense from you that you think if a poster is rude to him, he's justified to be just as rude back. I'm not sure of that.

Also, for the record, I've got no motivation to make stuff up about the guy to "justify" my dislike of his writing (my dislike of the writing is enough for that). Also, seeing him on the forum actually rehabilitated him. Off-site, I've heard a lot of horror stories claiming he was an unrepentant cyberbully, who had moderators supporting his side be default, etc. etc. "In person," while I don't think he's especially tactful and a little thin-skinned, he also, as I mentioned before, does have critics who give him unfair crap. The guy's just a writer who's not writing something everyone likes and doesn't react

Yeah DC who employés an aritist that tell people to go kill themselves is much better. Sure....

Forgot I heard about that. Terrible, yeah.

There are bad people from both companies.

Sad to say. However, better prices and the sense that the those in charge put the customers first. Much nicer setup, IMHO.

So you would not be defensive when people accuse you of everything form lying to condoning rape? Okay then.

Honestly, at that point, I think it's the time to stop listening to trollers and walk away. I mean, years of debate and squabbling and has anyone changed their position of anything related to Slott and Spider-Man?

Yeah I am sorry Weblurker but you litteraly did nothing to make me agree with you here.

Okay. At the end of the day, I think that both sides have contributed to the mess we get in on these forums. We should be above this stuff.

[Bor]

Okay, I remember it differently. I don't know how to verify which one of us has the better memory (if the truth is somewhere in the middle).



Yeah, I read the reviews often on.



Okay, kind of important here, are we taking about the website itself, or its forum? I don't visit the forum, just the main site.



The internet is a useful took that's easily abused, huh?



Without digging through pages of old postings, that's all I've got, unless something new turns up (I am limiting it to things that aren't hearsay, so that YouTuber's response over Slott's harassing him in regards to a charity run aren't counted). Also, I get the sense from you that you think if a poster is rude to him, he's justified to be just as rude back. I'm not sure of that.

Also, for the record, I've got no motivation to make stuff up about the guy to "justify" my dislike of his writing (my dislike of the writing is enough for that). Also, seeing him on the forum actually rehabilitated him. Off-site, I've heard a lot of horror stories claiming he was an unrepentant cyberbully, who had moderators supporting his side be default, etc. etc. "In person," while I don't think he's especially tactful and a little thin-skinned, he also, as I mentioned before, does have critics who give him unfair crap. The guy's just a writer who's not writing something everyone likes and doesn't react



Forgot I heard about that. Terrible, yeah.



Sad to say. However, better prices and the sense that the those in charge put the customers first. Much nicer setup, IMHO.



Honestly, at that point, I think it's the time to stop listening to trollers and walk away. I mean, years of debate and squabbling and has anyone changed their position of anything related to Slott and Spider-Man?



Okay. At the end of the day, I think that both sides have contributed to the mess we get in on these forums. We should be above this stuff.

If you show me any evidence of Slott saying even 1/10 of the stuff thrown against him I will agree with you. And yeah I am talking specificly about the forum. Just like this site has some descent article at times there are certain parts of the forum, cough x-forum cough, that has at various points been pretty much a madhouse.

[Mister Mets]

When I was thinking of when I said that I was not impressed with Slott's online manners, I was thinking of a screaming match that he and some other users got into over on the "Will One More Day Ever be Reversed?" thread some months ago. However, the moderator deleted that whole exchange on the grounds of it being off-topic, so, unless there's a way to access an archive or someone wants to corroborate, that's that for that. As I recall, a key point of contention was Slott's insistence that the site is a unified front that basically attacks anything and everything he does. I do occasionally read reviews and listen to the site's podcast, and, while many of the managers there are not fans of what 616 Spider-Man has become, the reviews themselves are pretty objective. (Slott also as this weird thing of claiming that two separate users are the same person using socks, which strikes me as being disingenuous.

It's just been my experience that he's extremely combative and thin-skinned. I have interacted with pro authors on other forums and I have to say that, even when I got in a heated disagreement with them, they kept things mature on their end of things. That's something that Slott seems to fail at a lot and it's not the kind of person I want to read comics from.



Even if they are treating him badly, should he still sink to their level? At the very least it reflects badly on him. To point, when I first heard that Slott was writing for post-616 OMD Spider-Man and that he had found a favorable audience, I thought that even if I didn't want to read his ASM (given that I don't like the post-OMD setting for Spider-Man stories), I might want to take a look at his other stuff. After seeing how he interacts with fans and critics online, I don't want anything to do with anything he's involved with.

Also, it doesn't reflect well on Marvel. Look, I'm a Marvel fan through and through, however, right now, DC honestly looks like the best comics company to patronize on almost all fronts, and having better PR is one of them.



As to that, I couldn't say, given that I'm not sure I've witnessed that. However, the man is writing a version of Spider-Man that is, by its very nature controversial. It was never going to be universally popular and flying off the handle because some readers don't like it isn't professional. (Also, if the fans that don't like his stuff are such a small piece of the fandom, as Slott tells us so often, why is he so defensive when they express themselves?



The obvious question is how you're figuring that.

I'm not so sure, though. The consistent complaints I hear (beyond how he treats fans online) are that they don't like his characterizations or stories (which are all on him) or technical flaws in his writing (the way he can't stick an ending, stiff dialogue, forcing characters to do things to advance the plot), which are also all on him.



Why do you keep insisting that those two users are the same person?

Also, I wouldn't be so sure that every critic of your work is drinking Crawlspace Kool-Aid. I, for one, came to the conclusion that your version of Spider-Man had nothing to do with what I liked about the franchise all on my own. (Also, FYI, the Crawlspace has been recently running a list of top Spider-Man comic stories and they did select several of yours for it, so they must not totally hate your work.)

While the artist who told a fan to kill himself on social media was wrong to do so, he apologized afterwards and made a donation to a suicide awareness charity. People can have lapses in judgement, but that is not the thing that defines their worth as a human being.

[Bor]

While the artist who told a fan to kill himself on social media was wrong to do so, he apologized afterwards and made a donation to a suicide awareness charity. People can have lapses in judgement, but that is not the thing that defines their worth as a human being.

No but it does shown that DC and their staff is in no way free from controversy. Which would also be wierd considering how much overlap there has been between the two companies.

[Metamorphosis]

I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt Matamorposis and check out Crawlspace. After reading several different threads I maintain what I said before.
There are some good and insightful posts, but a WHOLE lot of it is stuff like saying Slott "interjects himself into online fan discussions,and abuses his authority as a Marvel employee through online bullying,defamation of character and his arrogant and rude behavior towards criticism." or worse stuff about the man, his work or his character. I saw everything from personal attacks directed at his weigh to him supposedly hating MJ and its because of him the marrige is not back yet because he holds ASM "as a hostage" instead of given it to creator who would bring back the marrige for sure.
If you think statements like that are a fair assesment of Slotts interaction with fans then I dont really know what to tell you except I highly disagree and the fact that noone here has been willing to provide a specific example to support their claims tells me all I need to know.

The fact that you cherry-picked a couple of would-be negative posts from over there, while admitting "There are some good and insightful posts", says a lot.

And also: Slott "interjects himself into online fan discussions, and abuses his authority as a Marvel employee through online bullying, defamation of character and his arrogant and rude behavior towards criticism."

Is this not in fact, factual? That he's allowed to berate individuals here, gaslight them and question their mental health if they criticize him, and is often quite rude to people in violation of the board rules, but it is allowed to slide here because of who he is?

I think the fact that he doesn't hold Mary Jane in high regard isn't any kind of secret, either. If it's supposed to be, it's not a very good one.

[Tuck]

[Metamorphosis]

LOL--thanks Tuck: about to spray my morning coffee all over the screen from laughing while watching that!

[Bor]

The fact that you cherry-picked a couple of would-be negative posts from over there, while admitting "There are some good and insightful posts", says a lot.

And also: Slott "interjects himself into online fan discussions, and abuses his authority as a Marvel employee through online bullying, defamation of character and his arrogant and rude behavior towards criticism."

Is this not in fact, factual? That he's allowed to berate individuals here, gaslight them and question their mental health if they criticize him, and is often quite rude to people in violation of the board rules, but it is allowed to slide here because of who he is?

I think the fact that he doesn't hold Mary Jane in high regard isn't any kind of secret, either. If it's supposed to be, it's not a very good one.

The fact that you think I had to cherry-pick anything while at the same time offer no example to support your claims kind of tells me I am 100 % right and the fact that you are so defensive tells a lot.

And no what comes afterwords is certaintly not factual. Not unless you confuse reality with that bubble thats been build up over at crawlspace. In the real world it certaintly has not.

Would you please show me that he aftively hates MJ? Or any of the other things I mentioned. Funny how you try to ignore that. Likely because you know its there and there is a whole lot of it.

Funny how you still havent been able to provide an example that shows Slott doing anything that comes close to the stuff I mentioned. You know why you cant? Because then everyone would see that you have nothing that comes close to that.

I did not have to cherry-pick anyhting, its there for everyone to see. If you werent so busy demanding creators to take every kind of abuse thrown their way you would admit that.

[WebLurker]

I think the fact that he doesn't hold Mary Jane in high regard isn't any kind of secret, either. If it's supposed to be, it's not a very good one.

That's hardly a reason to call him awful, just because he doesn't like a specific character. I self-identity as a Spider-Man fan and I don't like Gwen Stacy very much.