Geoff Johns Writing "Doomsday Clock" Event Starring Superman

[Atomic Man]

Everyone draws the S a little differently. The only thing everyone is sure to do with this Superman's S is put back the bottom serif, which wasn't there with New 52 Superman. But beyond that, its never exactly the same between artists. There's always at least one subtle difference that can be noticed. I think everyone's looking way too much into this. Its just Reborn Superman's chest battered after some sort of fight. Its not Prime, its not an alternate version, its just Superman, as has been hinted all along that there was a connection between him and Manhattan.

You say this with an assuredness that you can't have unless you work for DC Comics. I've looked at the way that symbol is depicted more than once in the last few days, and it's definitely a 3D shield with details that indicate a solid, raised material.

Its just battle-damaged, yes. In this instance, I wouldn't be surprised if the artist was inspired at least somewhat by Reeve's S. But even so its still close enough to the main Superman's S. There's no stark difference that's evident when they're really trying to drive home "other Superman". So to me there's zero indication its supposed to be indicative of another Superman, be it Prime or a Silver Age incarnation or anything else.

Reeve's symbol was not at all this way, so I'm afraid I don't see the connection you're making there.

If Suprboy-Prime really was going to be in Doomsday clock, I'd want nothing to do with it. Who needs a reminder of the time Geoff Johns chose to piss all over Crisis on Infinite Earths and the legacy of the golden age Superman? Before Infinite Crisis, he was one of those writers I thought could do no wrong. This was about the time DC must have decided their target audience was the Columbine kid sort of comic book fan who got off on all the beheading and limb-ripping he had Superboy-Prime doing.

He did help me know how Jesse Custer in "Preacher" must have felt after Cassidy let him down.

Not only what he did to Kal-L, but also Superboy of Earth-Prime, who I loved as a big fan of the Bronze Age and especially Elliot S! Maggin. I'm not saying I think this is a good idea, I just think there are a lot of clues pointing to it being a real possibility.

If Superboy-Prime realizes that, then perhaps he's less of an idiot than he once was and started to acquire some degree of wisdom.

Perhaps in Dr. Manhattan, Superboy-Prime regains what he lost in Alexander Luthor, Jr. of Pre-COIE Earth-Three, minus the evil.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Excellent point. Manhattan wasn't evil at the end of Watchmen and hadn't "abandoned" his humanity, so it would make sense that none of this is his doing. Unless he lost the regained faith he had in humanity after exploring the Multiverse (and perhaps Multi-Multiverse).

[Coal Tiger]

You say this with an assuredness that you can't have unless you work for DC Comics. I've looked at the way that symbol is depicted more than once in the last few days, and it's definitely a 3D shield with details that indicate a solid, raised material.

Yes, but Superboy Prime never wore a symbol like that. There was no yellow in the armor he wore, and when he wore a regular costume it wasn't a raised S.

Johns did answer a question about the raised S shield here: http://www.blastr.com/2017-5-13/dc-c...lock-interview

The relevant quote is here:

12. About the final page of The Flash #22, which shows a battered Superman shield.

"That is by design. What are the flaws in Superman? How far can Superman fall. We’re going to find out. There is still so much more to come, but we'll get deeper into it soon."

He's talking about Superman, not anyone else.


I'm not sure why anyone is talking about Dr Manhattan being "evil" or anything. No one was saying he was evil, just indifferent. We've seen him exploding gangsters, various Vietnamese people, and even his own friend Rorschach with cold efficiency. We just saw him kill Reverse Flash and the entire Flashpoint universe because he was basically done with it. His actions have nothing to do with evil, he just doesn't find human life especially important in the grand scheme of things.

There just seems to be a lot of hoops people are jumping through to make Superboy Prime a part of this story, when the cleaner, more interesting answer is readily apparent: Doctor Manhattan discovered the DCU and is experimenting with it.

[Sacred Knight]

You say this with an assuredness that you can't have unless you work for DC Comics. I've looked at the way that symbol is depicted more than once in the last few days, and it's definitely a 3D shield with details that indicate a solid, raised material.

That I seem very assured is just because there's absolutely nothing to suggest anything else at this point. The raised shield for instance. You're right of course, it is raised. But Rebirth/Reborn Superman's S has been drawn with a raised, 3D look as well at times. As was New 52 Superman's. As was pre-FP Superman. Ever since Superman Returns, various artists have chosen to draw the main Superman with a slightly raised, 3D shield. Its all dependent on the artist. So its still nothing unique to identify it away from our Superman.

Reeve's symbol was not at all this way, so I'm afraid I don't see the connection you're making there.

I think so. Slightly rounded edges, a sharp and fairly wide top curve. Its not exact but there's a reminiscence. But, maybe it wasn't drawn with that in mind at all. That's a guess on my part, and ultimately irrelevant. Still doesn't change that there's absolutely nothing about this shield that's drastically different from the current Superman.

In the end, Superman Reborn ended with a clear allusion to Dr. Manhattan. The Button ends with a clear allusion to Superman. The evidence at this point suggests its the main Superman.

[Ascended]

RE: the design of the shield.

I think this is a non-starter, guys. I mean, the details of the shield might actually matter in some fashion, but artists always draw the thing a little differently. Remember when Ivan Reis was on Justice League and was drawing the New52 shield with the kind of "Superman Returns" raised, metallic look, and the negative space was a gold glow effect instead of the standard yellow? No explanation given, just a different shield from what everyone else was doing. (also one of my favorite versions of the thing, but that's besides the point).

This teaser could easily just be nothing more than that; one particular artist drawing the shield with a little flair.

I suspect the important factor is the scratches and dents and battle damage. We have the blood from the button, the most iconic visual in Watchmen (and comics in general) and then a busted and bruised Superman. I think this image is less about "which" Superman we're looking at and more about establishing the confrontation between the Watchmen (or at least Manhattan and/or Ozymandias/Mr. Oz) and the Man of Tomorrow.

[Atomic Man]

...or, perhaps, to repair and strengthen it?

Imagine if this were the ultimate Superboy-Prime redemption story...his goal being to redeem himself and make amends for his past actions by trying to repair and reinforce the DCU after all that it has endured in past Crises, but that the "surgery" to repair it requires Superboy-Prime/Dr. Manhattan to first remove the damaged parts so that they can repair it?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I would love to see Superboy redeemed. He should never have been so blatantly evil, just misguided and manipulated by Alex.

RE: the design of the shield.

I think this is a non-starter, guys. I mean, the details of the shield might actually matter in some fashion, but artists always draw the thing a little differently. Remember when Ivan Reis was on Justice League and was drawing the New52 shield with the kind of "Superman Returns" raised, metallic look, and the negative space was a gold glow effect instead of the standard yellow? No explanation given, just a different shield from what everyone else was doing. (also one of my favorite versions of the thing, but that's besides the point).

This teaser could easily just be nothing more than that; one particular artist drawing the shield with a little flair.

I suspect the important factor is the scratches and dents and battle damage. We have the blood from the button, the most iconic visual in Watchmen (and comics in general) and then a busted and bruised Superman. I think this image is less about "which" Superman we're looking at and more about establishing the confrontation between the Watchmen (or at least Manhattan and/or Ozymandias/Mr. Oz) and the Man of Tomorrow.

As I've said before, I don't like the idea of Prime being involved and personally love the idea of the Watchmen characters being used. I've never understood the nigh-religious fervor over that story, and while I think it's a classic, it's not the end all and be all of comic book storytelling. I think DC should use the characters as they see fit, but certainly in measured ways that don't cheapen Watchmen or the DCU.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I think the battle damaged S could be Grant Morrison's Superman Beyond/Final Crisis "Thought Robot."

[GreatKungLao]

Since Doomsday Clock is going full philosophical, I think this Superman's chest with an S is a representation of what happens when you reboot the character too many times - he gets damaged. But maybe the point that this book is going to make would be something among the lines like Superman was always the one character who had to develop according to generations, but without leaving his most significant and recognizable traits that made him Superman. We will see.

[Stryder Wolfe]

The "S" at the end of the button immediately made me think of All-Star Superman.
IMG_4347.JPGIMG_4348.JPG

[Lvenger]

I think the battle damaged S could be Grant Morrison's Superman Beyond/Final Crisis "Thought Robot."

Admittedly Thought Robot Superman vs Dr Manhattan would be one of the coolest things ever. But Johns did say not to expect a battle between Manhattan and Superman so maybe the S shield gets battle damaged another.

[manofsteel1979]

Since Doomsday Clock is going full philosophical, I think this Superman's chest with an S is a representation of what happens when you reboot the character too many times - he gets damaged. But maybe the point that this book is going to make would be something among the lines like Superman was always the one character who had to develop according to generations, but without leaving his most significant and recognizable traits that made him Superman. We will see.

If that's the case, then I will be pleased. It'll mean DC finally gets that rebooting Superman so often and hard has damaged the franchise. However, I'm not that sure yet they've figured out their culpability.

[Johnny Thunders!]

Admittedly Thought Robot Superman vs Dr Manhattan would be one of the coolest things ever. But Johns did say not to expect a battle between Manhattan and Superman so maybe the S shield gets battle damaged another.

I almost think it has to happen now! I was thinking as much as Dr. Manhattan is a Superman surrogate in the Watchmen universe, he is visually much more like another Siegel creation, The Spectre!

[Ascended]

I would love to see Superboy redeemed. He should never have been so blatantly evil, just misguided and manipulated by Alex.

I think he did a great job of proving Joker right with that whole "One bad day...." thing. Prime was a victim of Alex's manipulations, up to the moment where he accidentally killed Pantha. But everything he's done since is all on him. And while it's comics so no one is ever beyond redemption, I'd argue that Prime is beyond redemption. And I wouldn't want it any other way.

I always liked Prime. He was overplayed pretty hard for a while, but he's a fun concept and a really interesting idea for a villain. And I enjoy the fact that he's a commentary on the worst parts of fandom. We bitch and moan and name call creators all the time, often for the stupidest stuff imaginable. At best we are painfully critical of their work, and go to great lengths to explain why they suck, completely lacking in empathy for these poor bastards who are just trying to entertain us and pay their rent. Those guys deserve to shoot back every once in a while.

As I've said before, I don't like the idea of Prime being involved and personally love the idea of the Watchmen characters being used. I've never understood the nigh-religious fervor over that story, and while I think it's a classic, it's not the end all and be all of comic book storytelling. I think DC should use the characters as they see fit, but certainly in measured ways that don't cheapen Watchmen or the DCU.

I'm not against Prime being involved in this story, but I'd rather he be left out. I'm getting older, I suppose, and my memory is getting long, and it doesn't feel like Prime's been gone all that long. If he is involved, then I suppose that's fine; after all its been like, six/seven years since we've seen him. But I'd rather a few more years go by before he shows up again.

As for the Watchmen.....perhaps you had to live through it and see the impact it had on the genre? I didnt (too young to have read it), so Im just guessing. And perhaps most important, it ended. Stories that actually end, and are remembered, are rare. I feel like that's something you dont just screw with for the kicks; you gotta respect the finality and have a damn good reason to go back. I dont trust DC currently to do the job right, so I'd rather not see it done at all.

And I dont know if you can really fit the Watchmen characters into the morality structure of the DCU without a real delicate touch I once again doubt DC can manage. I mean, look at how poorly the WildStorm characters fit.

But hell, if they're gonna do it, I hope they prove me wrong!

[DragonPiece]

If that's the case, then I will be pleased. It'll mean DC finally gets that rebooting Superman so often and hard has damaged the franchise. However, I'm not that sure yet they've figured out their culpability.

Has it really damaged the franchise? He only got a actual reboot once in the past few years. The rest was just retcons and story changes.

[Superlad93]

I enjoy the fact that he's a commentary on the worst parts of fandom. We bitch and moan and name call creators all the time, often for the stupidest stuff imaginable. At best we are painfully critical of their work, and go to great lengths to explain why they suck, completely lacking in empathy for these poor bastards who are just trying to entertain us and pay their rent. Those guys deserve to shoot back every once in a while.

This is basically why I like Superboy prime as a concept, and I think they can do so much with him as a Superman foe. I'm 95% sure that he's not in this event, but I like him as an idea all the same.

The mega fan that has rose tinted glasses for the era he grew up loving. The mega fan that loves to explain and dissect a comic and character down to the point where they've lost what makes them special. Honestly, I think they might want to think about aging him up to 30 or something but still calling him Superboy Prime as a commentary on adults setting up camp in this world of make believe, and edging oncoming kids out.

I'd also love to see him and Superman working together as Prime finds the same spark in this Superman that drew him to the other, but he's too stuck in his ways to really admit it after the shaky team up lol

He's just a lot of fun to think about.

[Ascended]

Has it really damaged the franchise? He only got a actual reboot once in the past few years. The rest was just retcons and story changes.

I think its really hard to quantify how much damage the reboots have done, honestly.

But I do think the reboots have complicated the franchise. When you tell creative teams that the history that has defined the character no longer exists, and his backstory and personality traits are changed, that must make it harder to handle Superman. So your mediocre writers will churn out subpar work and you end up needing higher quality talent, which means you've got a smaller talent pool to draw from, and less variety to work with. And since DC doesnt usually want to pay the high-end writers to do Superman (perhaps because he's a mid-tier seller even at his worst) you dont get a lot of really good stories very often.

And the reboots have certainly damaged the fandom. We've drawn lines in the sand along Crisis events and there's a certain amount of resistance to anything that isn't within the box you like, even when the story itself is well done. That hurts sales, which means DC is even less likely to spend money on better talent, which means lower quality and lower sales, which just drives the whole thing down the spiral even further.

And writers end up spending a ton of time on Clark's past, trying to either make sense of it and find their hook in the new continuity, or else trying to reshape it back into something familiar (just look at the 00's). So nothing actually moves forward, we just retread old ground and re-tell the origin over and over again, with variations on the basic premise. That doesnt help sales either.