Doomsday clock

[Outside_85]

Absolute nonsense. Other than towing the company line with Justice League and PR pieces it's pretty clear with Rebirth and some of the BTS interviews like the interview with Kevin Smith that he was very much not a fan of Nu52 and that the people who championed Nu52 were the likes of Dan Didio, Jim Lee and Bob Harras while his ideas and creative teams he championed were quitely dropped due to Nu52.

And Geoff Johns who presented the whole thing to everyone.

Don't try to excuse him from the New 52, thats his doing as much as it was Lee, Didio and Harras'. And likely more so because he's their architect.

[LOSTie-chan]

Thank God for DC. I almost forgot how it felt to be excited about comics.

I'm so hyped!! Aaah!! ^-^

[Lee Stone]

Blackest Night was 8 issues. Hopefully Doomsday Clock won't be more than that. I know Gary Frank isn't a fan of monthly schedules so I hope this turns out well for him too.

If they do eight bi-weekly issues, it could still end in time for Action #1000 (providing there's no delays).

[Sacred Knight]

Absolute nonsense. Other than towing the company line with Justice League and PR pieces it's pretty clear with Rebirth and some of the BTS interviews like the interview with Kevin Smith that he was very much not a fan of Nu52 and that the people who championed Nu52 were the likes of Dan Didio, Jim Lee and Bob Harras while his ideas and creative teams he championed were quitely dropped due to Nu52.

He's absolutely responsible for the dark and gritty nature the pre-FP verse became after Identity Crisis. And that era was way darker than the New 52 ever was anyway. So either way he's been pretty hypocritical from the get-go with crafting Rebirth and blaming the dark and gritty eras on other factors when he was a huge hand in crafting them all.

[Bruce Wayne]

He's absolutely responsible for the dark and gritty nature the pre-FP verse became after Identity Crisis.

So you are completely ignoring Dan Didio was the actual person in charge of all the books at DC and who many creators attributed as a Shooter sized influence on the various corners of the DCnU or the fact that Johns influence over the pre-FP DCU only crested near the end after Blackest Night and in the final year of the DCU. I mean it's great you can blame him for everything, but there is zero evidence that he exercised any line wide creative influence outside of his books until Brightest Day.

And Geoff Johns who presented the whole thing to everyone.

Yes it's called PR.

Don't try to excuse him from the New 52, thats his doing as much as it was Lee, Didio and Harras'.

So you think Johns was the one who thought it was a good idea to fold Wildstorm into the DCnU and invited all those ex-Marvel 90s writers? Or the one whose job was tied to the sales numbers of DC Comics and who needed a sales boost to save their jobs. Hint it wasn't Johns.

All it seems is the entire point of your narrative is to blame everyone without trying to figure out who was actually responsible.

[Outside_85]

So you are completely ignoring Dan Didio was the actual person in charge of all the books at DC and who many creators attributed as a Shooter sized influence on the various corners of the DCnU or the fact that Johns influence over the pre-FP DCU only crested near the end after Blackest Night and in the final year of the DCU. I mean it's great you can blame him for everything, but there is zero evidence that he exercised any line wide creative influence outside of his usual niches until Brightest Day.

You mean aside the fact he was named the CCO of the company and as such is the main guy for story ideas and directions. Lee is in charge of the overall look, Harras is the guy who wrangles the editors and hires the new guys while Didio's job is mainly to make sure the three other guys can work together effectively alongside being the public face of the company.

[AlexanderLuthor]

I don't think the ideas are necessarily mutually exclusive - it's very possible that Johns looked at his own work and the line as a whole and said to himself that all of it had gotten too dark and wanted to change it. IMHO, DiDio and Lee were the driving forces behind the N52, but Johns has to take some of the blame since he crafted many parts of the vision. That said, he was pretty clear in interviews starting a couple of years back that he thought comics, and DC especially, had lost a lot of their charm and hope.

As for hypocritical, there is a fine line between being a hypocrite and genuinely changing your mind and reevaluating something. Sometimes people can be self aware and realize views they held before were wrong. I don't think that makes them a hypocrite.

Back on topic - I couldn't be more excited about this whole project. The original idea was brilliant and hopefully the finished product will match

[Bruce Wayne]

You mean aside the fact he was named the CCO of the company and as such is the main guy for story ideas and directions.

1) Where is the evidence? We have plenty of evidence that he exercised influence on the tv shows/cartoon such as YJ/Arrow/Flash (which apparently was the bulk of his job). Outside of the Brightest Day related stuff which included Snyder/Lemire on ST/AM and who apparently was there due in part to Berger, his influence collapsed after FP and he only exercised some influence via his Green Lantern, Aquaman, Forever Evil and Justice League corners (and a brief run on Supes) until his return in Rebirth.

You can claim he was an ideas guys for Nu52, but there is minimal evidence to show that he had any influence over the Batbooks, Superbooks, WW, JL Dark titles, the Young Justice line or the various Wildstorm stuff.

2) Who do you think got Harras the job as EiC of DC Comics? Who do you think wanted to put the Wildstorm universe into DC? Who do you think invited all those ex-Marvel writers like DeFalco/Nocienti/Lobdell? Who do you think triggered the reboot? Who do you think dreamed up the idea of 52 books in the first place (ala the first 52 weekly) or the reboot in the first place. Hint it wasn't Johns.

[AlexanderLuthor]

1) Where is the evidence? We have plenty of evidence that he exercised influence on the tv shows/cartoon such as YJ/Arrow/Flash (which apparently was the bulk of his job). Outside of the Brightest Day related stuff which included Snyder/Lemire on ST/AM and who apparently was there due in part to Berger, his influence collapsed after FP and he only exercised some influence via his Green Lantern, Aquaman, Forever Evil and Justice League corner (and a brief run on Supes) until his return in Rebirth.

You can claim he was an ideas guys for Nu52, but there is no evidence to back it up.

2) Who do you think got Harras the job as EiC of DC Comics? Who do you think wanted to put the Wildstorm universe into DC? Who do you think invited all those ex-Marvel writers like DeFalco/Nocienti/Lobdell? Who do you think triggered the reboot? Who do you think dreamed up the idea of 52 books in the first place (ala the first 52 weekly). Hint it wasn't Johns.

Adding evidence to your post, if you just look at his work as a whole it generally hasn't been too dark. The only two exceptions are the retcon killing of Barry's mother and WW snapping Max Lord's neck. Now, some could argue those are pretty big exceptions, but his work on Green Lantern, Aquaman, JSA, Flash, TT, Superman, JL and otherwise probably aren't in the top 100 darkest runs in the last decade

[Nite-Wing]

So far Johns has written all the big events for DC leading up to and including the new 52
Saying he had no hand in the grim and gritty overly violent comics that have been pumped out with him on top is being willfully ignorant

[Bruce Wayne]

Adding evidence to your post, if you just look at his work as a whole it generally hasn't been too dark. The only two exceptions are the retcon killing of Barry's mother and WW snapping Max Lord's neck. Now, some could argue those are pretty big exceptions, but his work on Green Lantern, Aquaman, JSA, Flash, TT, Superman, JL and otherwise probably aren't in the top 100 darkest runs in the last decade

Right I just don't think there is evidence to show that Johns was responsible for the supposed grim n gritty nature of the DCU post-Identity Crisis when Identity Crisis wasn't even his idea and was very much a creature of Meltzer and DC editorial. Stuff like War Games that had the death of Spoiler or Cass turning evil certainly can't be laid on him (that was Schreck & Tomasi iirc). If anything the bigger culprit was DC editorial.

[Sacred Knight]

I'm not ignoring anything. By saying Johns was responsible I'm not saying other parties weren't as well. If it came out that way that's on me but it wasn't the intent. Just that he was a major hand. There's plenty of blame to go around. But Johns is at the top with the likes of Didio and Levitz and Harras etc. You don't have the power he's wielded for so many years especially at the height of said eras in question and skirt responsibility. And hey, it happened and its over with, and that they're trying to correct some things is commendable. But I'm not going to buy him as some sort of savior correcting the mistakes of others. He's one of many at the top correcting their own missteps, if this is successful. I'm blaming the regime, not just him. But he's absolutely included.

[Outside_85]

Yes it's called PR.

No, PR is what Didio is doing.

What Johns is doing is get pulled out to explain his ideas. Whats why it's him that got pulled out to explain Flashpoint, Forever Evil, Blackest Night, Rebirth and now Doomsdays Clock. Because those are the events he is in charge of. Also why he didn't get pulled out to say something about Court of Owls, the Culling, Death of the Family or Godhead... because those he had nothing to do with.

So you think Johns was the one who thought it was a good idea to fold Wildstorm into the DCnU and invited all those ex-Marvel 90s writers? Or the one whose job was tied to the sales numbers of DC Comics and who needed a sales boost to save their jobs. Hint it wasn't Johns.

All it seems is the entire point of your narrative is to blame everyone without trying to figure out who was actually responsible.

Wildstorm was dragged in because that is Jim Lee's brainchild. And Johns is not in charge of hiring talent, Harras is... these things are not part of his job description. His job is to hammer out the basic course the DCU follows

Thats because I know what Johns actually does and don't try to rub it off on some pencil pusher in the human resources department. Johns is not the guy they pull out for big announcements because as a pretty face and a GL hat on, they pull him out because he is the one responsible for it.

1) Where is the evidence? We have plenty of evidence that he exercised influence on the tv shows/cartoon such as YJ/Arrow/Flash (which apparently was the bulk of his job). Outside of the Brightest Day related stuff which included Snyder/Lemire on ST/AM and who apparently was there due in part to Berger, his influence collapsed after FP and he only exercised some influence via his Green Lantern, Aquaman, Forever Evil and Justice League corner (and a brief run on Supes) until his return in Rebirth.

Wrong. He set the tone with his JL and he pointed everyone in the direction they wanted the company to go in, hence why Pandora was in every book at the beginning of the New 52 because everyone had to start moving towards the eventual goal of what turned out to be Forever Evil.

You can claim he was an ideas guys for Nu52, but there is minimal evidence to back it up.

No just massive denial on your part.

2) Who do you think got Harras the job as EiC of DC Comics? Who do you think wanted to put the Wildstorm universe into DC? Who do you think invited all those ex-Marvel writers like DeFalco/Nocienti/Lobdell? Who do you think triggered the reboot? Who do you think dreamed up the idea of 52 books in the first place (ala the first 52 weekly) or the reboot in the first place. Hint it wasn't Johns.

And none of that matters because every SINGLE writer in DC get an overall roadmap of where they are all going, what they are allowed to do and not do. And all of that is from Johns' table.

[Bruce Wayne]

Wildstorm was dragged in because that is Jim Lee's brainchild. And Johns is not in charge of hiring talent, Harras is... these things are not part of his job description. His job is to hammer out the basic course the DCU follows

And what was the basic course of the first years of Nu52, but trying to build up to the eventual Wildstorm event that never came. You can claim Johns created the roadmap all you wanted, but what happened in the end had Lee/Harras's fingerprints all over it.

No, PR is what Didio is doing.

Absolutely wrong. He was fingered by JMS as being the chief person behind the Nu52. And there are con reports of him taking responsibility for the reboot.

Wrong. He set the tone with his JL and he pointed everyone in the direction they wanted the company to go in, hence why Pandora was in every book at the beginning of the New 52 because everyone had to start moving towards the eventual goal of what turned out to be Forever Evil.

And where is the evidence that Trinity of Sin/Forever Evil was the endpoint from the start? If anything all the Wildstorm/Daemonite related stuff early on utterly contradicts this and everything points instead to Forever Evil and Trinity of Sin only being created after the Wildstorm ideas were abandoned and downplayed.

And none of that matters because every SINGLE writer in DC get an overall roadmap of where they are all going, what they are allowed to do and not do.

And where is the evidence of any sort of Johns created roadmap? George Perez didn't get the memo. And neither did Scott Snyder or the Bateditorial. And certainly not Brian Azzarello. Other than Green Lantern or Justice League which were books that he was writing, the evidence of a larger roadmap for DCnU crafted by Johns doesn't exist.

[Batarang]

I trust Geoff Johns, i believe, we will get something special.