Reading the Ultimate Universe from the beginning!

[Plawsky]

I am kind of jumping along too, it sounds like some of the first trades with miles are pretty good? I will have to give them a look! Guys I wanted to also ask in my first reading on the ultimate's.. I cannot help but notice little inconsistency like in the first ultimate's comics they mention the fantastic four like they have been around and are are established..but in the first Ultimate fantastic four they mention the ultimate being established.. and the F4 are clearly not even ready and they do not even have a name which is vice versa in both books!is this Just a case of bad planning back than?

The Ultimates came before. Why would the FF be mentioned in the Ultimates? Probably because of this.

I recall reading somewhere that it was just a mistake by Bendis. Millar had plotted the first volume of UFF, intending it to be set before Ultimates, but Bendis's script threw in an Ultimates reference.

I've been thinking and people are crazy. Marvel has always put 100% on Ultimate. Jeph Loeb was a huge name and was hot from DC, Brian Michael Bendis was and is still rocking it on Ultimate Spider-Man, Warren Ellis returned, and then they had Mark Millar making his "triumphant" return. Problem was Ultimatum didn't do very well. Next relaunch had Hickman, Bendis, and Spencer who were all red hot but I got swallowed by the new 52. Followed that with Brian Wood who was just kind of breaking in and was a big name. Meanwhile Sam Humphries just made it big too. Same with Fialkov and Fiffe. In fact, Ultimate has always had big names. Kirkman, Vaughn, Costa, etc. Marvel pushed this line like crazy and people say they aren't doing enough.

Spencer, Fialkov, and Humphries were all far from big names. Spencer had been hot for a second because of his Jimmy Olsen story, but Iron Man 2.0 hadn't done anything, and I think Ultimates was the first Big 2 work Humphries did. Fialkov would probably fall under the "rising star" banner, at least. As for Fiffe? ANU was the first thing he did with a print run of more than a few thousand issues.

None of that is a comment on the quality of those writers, mind you. Plenty of writers have great first stories, and a lot of big, seasoned writers write terrible books. But there's no way to compare the popularity of Fiffe and Spencer with Bendis and Millar, even as they were in 2000. There's a big difference between coming off runs on Powers or big work at DC and a popular self-published book or Jimmy Olsen backup story.

Also, you can't just mention the writers, because the popularity of the artists is important, and they were even smaller names. Even if Fialkov and Fiffe were rising stars, Amilcar Pinna and Andre Arujo sure weren't (again, not a comment on their talent). There's a big difference between Hickman/Ribic, who were undeniable big names at the time, and Humphries/Ross.

That said, I don't necessarily think it's a problem that Fiffe or Spencer or Humphries was chosen for those books. But there's no denying that Marvel never pushed the line post-2011 like they did before. Aside from the big event pushes, there wasn't much non-Miles talk from them regarding the UU. The Iron Man and Wolverine minis were launched with very little fanfare, for instance. The lack of push for Ultimate goes far beyond the creative teams. It's a pretty clear path back to about 2007 that Marvel started to put less and less emphasis on the UU as the event-driven nature of 616 took over.

[TheObsessor]

Ultimate Hulk versus Wolverine, despite having continuity issues, and being delayed for a LONG time, was really enjoyable. Main reason that it irritated me, however: Wolverine in 1610 is generally like Highlander, where you cut his head off, he dies. But then Nick Fury hacks it off and he's still talking; Sabertooth got decapitated in an early issue of X-men, and then comes back later with no explanation. Did they ever give a suitable explanation for how Wolverine and Sabertooth's powers worked in the Ultimate universe, or did it just depend on the author?

[Plawsky]

Ultimate Hulk versus Wolverine, despite having continuity issues, and being delayed for a LONG time, was really enjoyable. Main reason that it irritated me, however: Wolverine in 1610 is generally like Highlander, where you cut his head off, he dies. But then Nick Fury hacks it off and he's still talking; Sabertooth got decapitated in an early issue of X-men, and then comes back later with no explanation. Did they ever give a suitable explanation for how Wolverine and Sabertooth's powers worked in the Ultimate universe, or did it just depend on the author?

Essentially, Ultimate Wolverine's power was survival. It's his healing factor, but on steroids. It was WvH that really established that he could survive virtually everything, including the decapitation, and that's what irks some of our members (*cough* Wolverine12 *cough*) about what happened in Ultimatum.

As for Sabertooth, I think that there's a line of dialogue at some point that it wasn't quite a COMPLETE decapitation, that something stayed connected. The healing factor took care of the rest. It's a bit weak, but that was the explanation as far as I recall.

[Ozymandias]

As for Sabertooth, I think that there's a line of dialogue at some point that it wasn't quite a COMPLETE decapitation, that something stayed connected. The healing factor took care of the rest. It's a bit weak, but that was the explanation as far as I recall.

I seem to remember that, too.

[Wolverine12]

Essentially, Ultimate Wolverine's power was survival. It's his healing factor, but on steroids. It was WvH that really established that he could survive virtually everything, including the decapitation, and that's what irks some of our members (*cough* Wolverine12 *cough*) about what happened in Ultimatum.

As for Sabertooth, I think that there's a line of dialogue at some point that it wasn't quite a COMPLETE decapitation, that something stayed connected. The healing factor took care of the rest. It's a bit weak, but that was the explanation as far as I recall.

Still so irked.

[Ozymandias]

Still so irked.

To compensate, ultimate Wolverine could be dismembered.

[devil leonx]

I recall reading somewhere that it was just a mistake by Bendis. Millar had plotted the first volume of UFF, intending it to be set before Ultimates, but Bendis's script threw in an Ultimates reference.



Spencer, Fialkov, and Humphries were all far from big names. Spencer had been hot for a second because of his Jimmy Olsen story, but Iron Man 2.0 hadn't done anything, and I think Ultimates was the first Big 2 work Humphries did. Fialkov would probably fall under the "rising star" banner, at least. As for Fiffe? ANU was the first thing he did with a print run of more than a few thousand issues.

None of that is a comment on the quality of those writers, mind you. Plenty of writers have great first stories, and a lot of big, seasoned writers write terrible books. But there's no way to compare the popularity of Fiffe and Spencer with Bendis and Millar, even as they were in 2000. There's a big difference between coming off runs on Powers or big work at DC and a popular self-published book or Jimmy Olsen backup story.

Also, you can't just mention the writers, because the popularity of the artists is important, and they were even smaller names. Even if Fialkov and Fiffe were rising stars, Amilcar Pinna and Andre Arujo sure weren't (again, not a comment on their talent). There's a big difference between Hickman/Ribic, who were undeniable big names at the time, and Humphries/Ross.

That said, I don't necessarily think it's a problem that Fiffe or Spencer or Humphries was chosen for those books. But there's no denying that Marvel never pushed the line post-2011 like they did before. Aside from the big event pushes, there wasn't much non-Miles talk from them regarding the UU. The Iron Man and Wolverine minis were launched with very little fanfare, for instance. The lack of push for Ultimate goes far beyond the creative teams. It's a pretty clear path back to about 2007 that Marvel started to put less and less emphasis on the UU as the event-driven nature of 616 took over.

I see thank you! I was thinking it was something like that.

[devil leonx]

i wanted to ask, what would be the best place to read after the ultimate's 2 ultimate collection, there does not seem to be a ultimate's 3 as far as I know. is the next trade Hickmans run??

[Ozymandias]

i wanted to ask, what would be the best place to read after the ultimate's 2 ultimate collection, there does not seem to be a ultimate's 3 as far as I know. is the next trade Hickmans run??

Before Hickman's run, you have Loeb (New Ultimates, Ultimates 3) but I would ignore that, it's subpar.

On the other hand, there are good minis about Captain America (Aaron-Garney) and Thor (Hickman). The one about Iron Man, Armor Wars (Ellis), is also worth checking. Not to mistake with Orson Scott Card's version, which isn't even canon. Then you have Millar's attempt without Hitch, Ultimate Avengers, which decreases in quality with each artist, but it's a must read, if you want to get to his best try without Brian, which was Ultimate Avengers vs. New Ultimates.

Also, a good prelude to "The Republic Is Burning", would be Ultimate Doomsday (Bendis) + Ultimate Fallout #4 (Hickman).

Oh, and let's not forget about Ultimate Power (more Bendis).

[Mighty Roman]

i wanted to ask, what would be the best place to read after the ultimate's 2 ultimate collection, there does not seem to be a ultimate's 3 as far as I know. is the next trade Hickmans run??

There wasn't an Ultimates 3 Ultimate collection (but there is an ordinary TPB), because it was only 6 issues long. That series, and it's sequel Ultimatum, got terrible reviews/reception, so some people tend to skip them. However, here's what comes next for The Ultimates.
Ultimates 1
Ultimates 2
Ultimates 3
Ultimate Power
Ultimatum
New Ultimates
Ultimate Comics: Avengers 1-3 (this follows the black-ops counterpart to The Ultimates)
Ultimate Comics: Avengers vs New Ultimates.
Ultimate Comics Ultimates:
1. The Republic is Burning
Ultimate Hawkeye
2. Two Cities, Two Worlds
Ultimate Thor
Ultimate Captain America
Ultimate Iron Man: Demon in the Armour
Divided We Fall, United We Stand Crossover.
Ultimate Comics Ultimates by Sam Humphries Vol 1
Ultimates Dissassembled
Cataclysm.

[devil leonx]

There wasn't an Ultimates 3 Ultimate collection (but there is an ordinary TPB), because it was only 6 issues long. That series, and it's sequel Ultimatum, got terrible reviews/reception, so some people tend to skip them. However, here's what comes next for The Ultimates.
Ultimates 1
Ultimates 2
Ultimates 3
Ultimate Power
Ultimatum
New Ultimates
Ultimate Comics: Avengers 1-3 (this follows the black-ops counterpart to The Ultimates)
Ultimate Comics: Avengers vs New Ultimates.
Ultimate Comics Ultimates:
1. The Republic is Burning
Ultimate Hawkeye
2. Two Cities, Two Worlds
Ultimate Thor
Ultimate Captain America
Ultimate Iron Man: Demon in the Armour
Divided We Fall, United We Stand Crossover.
Ultimate Comics Ultimates by Sam Humphries Vol 1
Ultimates Dissassembled
Cataclysm.

Thank you for the list! of those you listed would you say they are all worth reading /getting? Loeb seems to not fair too well in the story department so I am thinking of ignoring those.

[Mighty Roman]

Thank you for the list! of those you listed would you say they are all worth reading /getting? Loeb seems to not fair too well in the story department so I am thinking of ignoring those.

Hickman's run (The Republic is Burning, Two Cities, Two Worlds, Hawkeye and Thor) is critically acclaimed and highly recommended. It also helped develop one of the best Ultimate version of a very famous character(I won't spoil it here).

If you're a fan of the original Ultimates series, then you might like Avengers 1-3, which sees the return of Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch, and focuses on Cap, Nick Fury and a black-ops counterpart to the Ultimates, and has a very similar tone to the original series.

Most people would tell you to skip Ultimatum. Its pretty much an 'everybody dies' story, where numerous characters die in gory and imaginative ways. Ultimates 3 isn't as bad as some people say, but it isn't fantastic.
Pretty much, most people would skip the Loeb stuff, and move onto UC: Avengers, then UC: The Ultimates, and carry on reading in chronological order (Dissassembled,etc).
Also, Hawkeye is a pretty essential tie-in. Read it after The Republic is Burning. The other miniseries are optional, but the Thor one is quite good as well.

[Ozymandias]

Ultimates by Jonathan Hickman (Ultimates #1-9, Ultimate Hawkeye)
My Rating: 9.5/10

Reed - If you know anything about Jonathan Hickman, it's that he loves Reed Richards. With Ultimates, he takes a questionable decision by Bendis to make him evil and legitimizes it. Reed as The Maker isn't a full on villain, he's an understandable, even if unrelatable, pragmatist. His dialogue is a bit expositiony at times, but I love the scenes between Reed/Hulk and Reed/Falcon, showing his reasonable side.

I finally got to rating them, 7.1/10 distributed liked this: #5-6 (6/10), #7-8 (7/10), #1, 3-4, 9 (7.5/10) and #2 (8/10).

Ultimate Hawkeye gets a solid 6/10.

About Reed, it's sad Bendis would try to undo the "damage" in Cataclysm, I really liked him playing Doom, even if the breakup, didn't fully justify, so big a change.

[Plawsky]

Coming Monday...



GET. HYPE.

(Well... not too hype, probably)

[Drz]

Oh my ;/