Fantastc Four #7 *spoilers*

[XPac]

After all these years with dissasembled and other storylines do you really thing anything can cause irreparable damage?

Yes. I genuinely believe Sue cheating on Reed without any outside factors involved (mind control or possession or skulls or whatever) will cause irreparable harm.

Sort of like how Hank slapping Jan caused irreparable harm to their marriage. From an objective standpoint Hank slapping Jan is not the worst thing we've seen in comics. But because husbands hitting their wives is a real life thing, it causes more harm than making clones of your friends or imprisoning them in the negative zone.

If you're marvel and you're involving the characters in real life domestic issues, you're potentially making a statement about them regardless of whether you intend to do so or not. It's part of the reason why Spiderman's marriage can't be a simple divource... it needed more of a fantasy/sci-fi spin on it so that Spider-Man and Mary Jane aren't becoming some sort of proponents for any sort of real life relationship issues.

If they wanted to really end Reed and Sue's marriage that's another matter entirely. But if they're just playing around with the relationship a bit, then you likely need to be a whole lot more careful about how you handle it.

[pageturner]

Yes. I genuinely believe Sue cheating on Reed without any outside factors involved (mind control or possession or skulls or whatever) will cause irreparable harm.

Sort of like how Hank slapping Jan caused irreparable harm to their marriage. From an objective standpoint Hank slapping Jan is not the worst thing we've seen in comics. But because husbands hitting their wives is a real life thing, it causes more harm than making clones of your friends or imprisoning them in the negative zone.

If you're marvel and you're involving the characters in real life domestic issues, you're potentially making a statement about them regardless of whether you intend to do so or not. It's part of the reason why Spiderman's marriage can't be a simple divource... it needed more of a fantasy/sci-fi spin on it so that Spider-Man and Mary Jane aren't becoming some sort of proponents for any sort of real life relationship issues.

If they wanted to really end Reed and Sue's marriage that's another matter entirely. But if they're just playing around with the relationship a bit, then you likely need to be a whole lot more careful about how you handle it.

I don't think I could agree more.

You don't want either character being the one who cheated. That would follow them around forever.

My only quibble was Hank did not imprison anyone or make a clone of any friends that was the Skrym

[Mark]

I just don't see marvel being careful, or having any reason to be careful. After everything they've done to characters those characters just keep rolling along. At any rate I'm just saying that they could have picked a less contrived storyline for the FF section of original sin.

Yes. I genuinely believe Sue cheating on Reed without any outside factors involved (mind control or possession or skulls or whatever) will cause irreparable harm.

Sort of like how Hank slapping Jan caused irreparable harm to their marriage. From an objective standpoint Hank slapping Jan is not the worst thing we've seen in comics. But because husbands hitting their wives is a real life thing, it causes more harm than making clones of your friends or imprisoning them in the negative zone.

If you're marvel and you're involving the characters in real life domestic issues, you're potentially making a statement about them regardless of whether you intend to do so or not. It's part of the reason why Spiderman's marriage can't be a simple divource... it needed more of a fantasy/sci-fi spin on it so that Spider-Man and Mary Jane aren't becoming some sort of proponents for any sort of real life relationship issues.

If they wanted to really end Reed and Sue's marriage that's another matter entirely. But if they're just playing around with the relationship a bit, then you likely need to be a whole lot more careful about how you handle it.

[Ravin' Ray]

After all these years with dissasembled and other storylines do you really thing anything can cause irreparable damage?

Because we as readers have out-of-story knowledge that the characters don't. We are still in the middle of Robinson's run and haven't seen everything yet. Of course we know they'll reconcile because Robinson practically said that at the start of his run. Plus, It's not surprising that Ben just like any other character, may behave irrationally just once and blow this way out of proportion. They all, and we all have the possibility to act so.

[Marvel Forever]

Yes. I genuinely believe Sue cheating on Reed without any outside factors involved (mind control or possession or skulls or whatever) will cause irreparable harm.

Sort of like how Hank slapping Jan caused irreparable harm to their marriage. From an objective standpoint Hank slapping Jan is not the worst thing we've seen in comics. But because husbands hitting their wives is a real life thing, it causes more harm than making clones of your friends or imprisoning them in the negative zone.

If you're marvel and you're involving the characters in real life domestic issues, you're potentially making a statement about them regardless of whether you intend to do so or not. It's part of the reason why Spiderman's marriage can't be a simple divource... it needed more of a fantasy/sci-fi spin on it so that Spider-Man and Mary Jane aren't becoming some sort of proponents for any sort of real life relationship issues.

If they wanted to really end Reed and Sue's marriage that's another matter entirely. But if they're just playing around with the relationship a bit, then you likely need to be a whole lot more careful about how you handle it.

If Marvel really does intend on cancelling Fantastic Four in 2015, perhaps they plan on a story line where it is revealed that Reed cheated on Sue back in the 1970's during their marital separation and that he fathered a child as a result? Now that would shake the Fantastic Four to the core!

[XPac]

I just don't see marvel being careful, or having any reason to be careful. After everything they've done to characters those characters just keep rolling along. At any rate I'm just saying that they could have picked a less contrived storyline for the FF section of original sin.

For the FF I think they picked a pretty easy Original Sin. Easy to imagine Thing getting mad, but also very easy to imagine him getting over it and moving on.

Unlike say Hickman with Cap and Tony, I don't necessarily think the FF wants this big drawn out thing. I think they wanted a quick and easy time in for the event, before going off to do it's own thing. Though again, that's just feeling on it. We'll see.

[jackolover]

You don't want something that could potentialy cause irreparable damage. Yeah, Sue having an affair with Namor would drive everyone farther apart, but I don't think they necessarily want any of these relationships completely destroyed either.

This one is very personal but also fairly fixable when they're ready to move onto something else.

If they only use peripheral Original Sins, it makes the event just so lame.

"Sorry, I broke that window you were blamed for".

"No problem. I'll kill you!!!"

[Iron Maiden]

Ugh... I dread the day when some writer actually makes an affair between Sue and Namor canon. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the characters, but so many people seem to think it was a possibility. I am honestly surprised that some FF writers like Millar or Fraction didn't introduce the idea. I almost see it as inevitable at this point.

I remember one of my early reasons for disliking Bendis besides Disassembled OOC awfulness, was ecause of an interview he gave in Wizard (yeah, I actually bought that mag way back when it had some good articles). Bendis insisted that Sue and Namor slept with each other before Sue and Reed were married. IIRC he alludes to it in his early Illuminati stories.

[XPac]

I remember one of my early reasons for disliking Bendis besides Disassembled OOC awfulness, was interview because of an he gave in Wizard (yeah, I actually bought that mag way back when it had some good articles). Bendis insisted that Sue and Namor slept with each other before Sue and Reed were married. IIRC he alludes to it in his early Illuminati stories.

If they slept together BEFORE Sue was married, then I actually think that's OKAY. Not that I'm saying they should go there, but I wouldn't place that under the category of irreparable harm.

Yeah, it's still cheating on your boyfriend or whatever but that's an entirely different thing from cheating on your husband or wife. The level of commitment there is on a whole other level.

[XPac]

If they only use peripheral Original Sins, it makes the event just so lame.

"Sorry, I broke that window you were blamed for".

"No problem. I'll kill you!!!"

If all the Original Sins are comparable to the FF one they yeah... kinda lame. But some at least might have a bit more to them. In the least I think some of Starks stuff seems more substantial.

[Mark]

That's part of the problem with these big events, the writers have to work them in somehow.

For the FF I think they picked a pretty easy Original Sin. Easy to imagine Thing getting mad, but also very easy to imagine him getting over it and moving on.

Unlike say Hickman with Cap and Tony, I don't necessarily think the FF wants this big drawn out thing. I think they wanted a quick and easy time in for the event, before going off to do it's own thing. Though again, that's just feeling on it. We'll see.

[strathcona]

I remember one of my early reasons for disliking Bendis besides Disassembled OOC awfulness, was interview because of an he gave in Wizard (yeah, I actually bought that mag way back when it had some good articles). Bendis insisted that Sue and Namor slept with each other before Sue and Reed were married. IIRC he alludes to it in his early Illuminati stories.

That's what I am talking about. Writers like Bendis (Millar and Fraction fit this category too) that are more about style than substance are willing to do something shocking just because they think it's cool... consequences and plausibility be damned.

[XPac]

That's part of the problem with these big events, the writers have to work them in somehow.

Most writers strictly speaking don't have to (though there are exceptions) ... but it's often a good idea. Events usually garner sales bumps.

[Iron Maiden]

That's what I am talking about. Writers like Bendis (Millar and Fraction fit this category too) that are more about style than substance are willing to do something shocking just because they think it's cool... consequences and plausibility be damned.

And if you read the comics it makes Sue even less likely because ever since they got their powers, the FF lived together with the exception of the brief time when the Torch had his solo series. That could not have been long because they lived in Glendale and the Torch was still trying to attend school with his secret identity in tact.

Now after all these years you could say that Reed and Sue were "shacking up" by 1960s standards since they lived under the same roof at the Baxter Building and weren't married until annual #3.

[Mark]

Also they didn't live in the same room and in the early 1960's Sue was a well brought up girl in a comic book, pre-marital sex wasn't even a prospect, so it's unlikely that she and Namor could have had an affair. Still a little originality in this tie in would have been better.