Will we ever get a new villain that achieves classic status again?

[oldschool]

The lack of recent new characters with potential to be "classic" may also be attributable to the rise of creator owned properties at Image and elsewhere. If you've got a fantastic idea for a new character, why not publish it where you'll reap all the rewards? If I was writing for Marvel, I'd always stick to characters that the corporation already owned. In this respect, I think we're more likely to see old and even largely forgotten characters revamped in interesting ways that become "classic."

This is most likely a factor as well and not one that I had thought of previously.....

[Hypestyle]

try to do more with less. Try to avoid mass murderers. Try to have some charismatic schemers.

[marhawkman]

this sort of thing is why I liked Menace. Aside from the novelty of being a female goblin, Menace was the sort of villain that the hero has reason to fight repeatedly.

[Spidercide]

My guess is a simple no but you never know; I think we can all agree that Hobgoblin and Venom were the last two villains to be introduced that have achieved classic/legendary status. Maybe Carnage though I think he falls just a little short. But, since then----and we are a quarter century on now, I don't think anyone has come close.

JMS made a good push with Morlun and Dan Slott with Mr. Negative but I don't think either is anywhere near the status of the aforementioned nor the classic rogues' gallery. We have had some good new additions over the last 25 or so years (Paper Doll, Fusion and Mr Negative all quickly come to mind) but it's no secret that it is hard for any writer to come up with a new big baddie that will be remembered years from now. It probably comes down to the best ideas have been mined long ago and the fanbase frankly just wants the "greatest hits" the same as most concertgoers when they buy that ticket to see U2 or Tom Petty.

Thoughts?

Carnage was adapted into two cartoons, multiple video games one of which he was the main villain of, he's been the star of a string of mini-series, is regarded as physically Spider-Man's most dangerous opponent, his debut was a smash hit seller without the modern marketing and promotion techniques and he is routinely beloved by a whole generation of Spider-Man fans.

I THINK we just might be able to say yes he is absolutely a classic Spider-Man villain. You literally can't think of Venom without also thinking of Carnage.

Unless you want to count Superior Spider-Man as his own character (even then I'd say he's merely memorable not actually good as a character the way other characters are) then I don't think we have nor could have another steller villain unless we get like a really stand out female villainess. Yeah, yeah Black Cat but nobody likes her as a villain by and large and she is conceptually not really supposed to be one (at least not at this point).

However I would argue that if we built them up more White Rabbit or Shriek could achieve classic status. White Rabbit is like the Harley Quinn of Spider-Man and Shriek has a cool look, unique powers and has got depth to her thanks to Dematteis' Shrieking storyline. She has also made it into a few adaptations.

Both villainesses possess strong gimmicks that render them unique within Spider-Man's rogue's gallery even beyond the fact that they are female.

White Rabbit is crazy in a kookey charming kind of way that's played for laughs and she fits into Spider-Man's animal themed villains but in a subversive way.

Shriek meanwhile is crazy in a disturbing kind of way but also isn't wholly evil. She's interesting because whilst you have guys like Norman and Otto (arguably also Vulture merely due to his age) who are dark father figure villains, Shriek is a dark mother figure villain (albeit not for Spider-Man himself). And on an old school super villain level she has a classic gimmick in the form of sound manipulation, although her powers extend into affecting your mind through that (I've always figured it's a little like how music affects your mood).

So there is a lot of potential there.

[oldschool]

Carnage was adapted into two cartoons, multiple video games one of which he was the main villain of, he's been the star of a string of mini-series, is regarded as physically Spider-Man's most dangerous opponent, his debut was a smash hit seller without the modern marketing and promotion techniques and he is routinely beloved by a whole generation of Spider-Man fans.

I THINK we just might be able to say yes he is absolutely a classic Spider-Man villain. You literally can't think of Venom without also thinking of Carnage.

Unless you want to count Superior Spider-Man as his own character (even then I'd say he's merely memorable not actually good as a character the way other characters are) then I don't think we have nor could have another steller villain unless we get like a really stand out female villainess. Yeah, yeah Black Cat but nobody likes her as a villain by and large and she is conceptually not really supposed to be one (at least not at this point).

However I would argue that if we built them up more White Rabbit or Shriek could achieve classic status. White Rabbit is like the Harley Quinn of Spider-Man and Shriek has a cool look, unique powers and has got depth to her thanks to Dematteis' Shrieking storyline. She has also made it into a few adaptations.

Both villainesses possess strong gimmicks that render them unique within Spider-Man's rogue's gallery even beyond the fact that they are female.

White Rabbit is crazy in a kookey charming kind of way that's played for laughs and she fits into Spider-Man's animal themed villains but in a subversive way.

Shriek meanwhile is crazy in a disturbing kind of way but also isn't wholly evil. She's interesting because whilst you have guys like Norman and Otto (arguably also Vulture merely due to his age) who are dark father figure villains, Shriek is a dark mother figure villain (albeit not for Spider-Man himself). And on an old school super villain level she has a classic gimmick in the form of sound manipulation, although her powers extend into affecting your mind through that (I've always figured it's a little like how music affects your mood).

So there is a lot of potential there.

There's no doubt there is a lot of potential with many of the villains adapted over the years with Spidey but none of them since the 1990's (and, from that decade, just Carnage and that's arguable----both Hobby and Venom were introduced in the '80's) have stuck. White Rabbit and Shriek are interesting picks on your part and you make good arguments for them; still, I think there are many others that had/have even more potential if only subsequent writers had followed up on them. I also wonder how it would play out if a writer selected a "dark horse" villain to be the antagonist of a major storyline. It's rarely done but I would welcome seeing someone besides Norman Osborn or Ock being behind the scenes of a big plot one of these days.

[Mister Mets]

There's no doubt there is a lot of potential with many of the villains adapted over the years with Spidey but none of them since the 1990's (and, from that decade, just Carnage and that's arguable----both Hobby and Venom were introduced in the '80's) have stuck. White Rabbit and Shriek are interesting picks on your part and you make good arguments for them; still, I think there are many others that had/have even more potential if only subsequent writers had followed up on them. I also wonder how it would play out if a writer selected a "dark horse" villain to be the antagonist of a major storyline. It's rarely done but I would welcome seeing someone besides Norman Osborn or Ock being behind the scenes of a big plot one of these days.

The dark horse is always a possibility.

This was Deadshot. He popped up once in the golden age.


He didn't appear again until one issue of the Englehart/ Rogers Detective Comics run decades later, but that was a really good story, which made the character intimidating enough that other writers wanted to use him (and gave him a much-improved visual).

That led to his role in Suicide Squad. Which eventually led to Will Smith playing him in a movie that made plenty of money.

[Scott Taylor]

this sort of thing is why I liked Menace. Aside from the novelty of being a female goblin, Menace was the sort of villain that the hero has reason to fight repeatedly.

Never, ever thought I'd say this - but I kinda miss Menace. Come back you big ugly, girl-power, old lug of a horny gob.

[Spidercide]

There's no doubt there is a lot of potential with many of the villains adapted over the years with Spidey but none of them since the 1990's (and, from that decade, just Carnage and that's arguable----both Hobby and Venom were introduced in the '80's) have stuck. White Rabbit and Shriek are interesting picks on your part and you make good arguments for them; still, I think there are many others that had/have even more potential if only subsequent writers had followed up on them. I also wonder how it would play out if a writer selected a "dark horse" villain to be the antagonist of a major storyline. It's rarely done but I would welcome seeing someone besides Norman Osborn or Ock being behind the scenes of a big plot one of these days.

Carnage has inarguable stuck around. He's ha a string of minis int he last few years alone.

[oldschool]

Carnage has inarguable stuck around. He's ha a string of minis int he last few years alone.

That is true but I would argue he has done so as a stand-alone horror character and not as a Spidey villain (or even a super villain at all; he seems to have morphed into a supernatural/horror figure).

[Spidercide]

That is true but I would argue he has done so as a stand-alone horror character and not as a Spidey villain (or even a super villain at all; he seems to have morphed into a supernatural/horror figure).

That's only been in literally his latest ongoing.

Carnage after his debut (which sold extremly well despite no special promotion for it) appeared in

Maximum Carnage

Power and Responsibility

Web of Carnage

Mind Bomb

An ASM annual

It's a Wonderful Life

A venom mini-series

Minimum Carnage

New Avengers

the Carnage Cosmic Arc

2 issues of Mackie's ASM/PPSM volume 2

A multi-parter in Webspinners: Tales of Spider-Man

Spider-Man the Animated Series for either 2 episodes or 5 depending upon how you want to count it

He was going to be in Spectacular Spider-Man season 3 and got a cameo in season 2

Spider-Man Unlimited the Cartoon

Ultimate Spider-man the cartoon (albeit a crappy version)

Ultimate Spider-Man the video game

Spider-Man 2000 for Playstation 1

His own video game

Ultimate Spider-Man the comic book where he was given the honour of killing Gwen Stacy...and later becoming Gwen Stacy...and thereby dating Peter at one point...

His 1990s appearances (not even just his early ones) sell for ridonkulous prices on ebay.

He's had his FOUR trade collections centred primarily on him, two of which were made in the 1990s when it wasn't policy to collect everything just the biggest stuff

He ha been considered as the main antagonist of various Venom movie ideas by the studios.

He has overall a much higher profile within the Spider-Man brand and franchise than even the mega popular Hobgoblin has

Maximum Carnage was literally conceived of to make money off the back of him and Venom

What more do you need?

[Starter Set]

Wait, there are other villains than Osborn?

[Mister Mets]

At this point, Carnage probably has classic status.

I could get the argument that he's still missing a classic story, although Maximum Carnage is rather popular (undeservedly so) and he has been in some decent comics (Spider-Man/ Batman is rather underrated.)

[Tuck]

Carnage has no business existing outside of the 90s. He's like Mad Mod.

[Dangerous]

Mr Negative was pretty cool.
Perhaps his inclusion in the new PS4 game will elevate his status?

[Frontier]

Mr Negative was pretty cool.
Perhaps his inclusion in the new PS4 game will elevate his status?

It might just do at that, since his showing there was actually pretty cool (cooler then I recall Negative being in the comics ) and much stronger then his cartoon debut.