Who Is Snoke? Your Theory Or Guesses?

[ChrisIII]

I remember the old EU used the term "Dark Jedi" quite a bit, especially when the prequels made it clear there could only be two Sith at a time-I remember the Dark Horse comics and several games, for instance, had Dooku have a whole slew of various force-sensitive apprentices apart from just Ventress (and later Savage Opress and Quinlan Vos). The "Jedi knight" game also took this approach as well.

Although when the prequels wrapped they pretty much started using "Sith" again, especially the "Legacy" stuff which pretty much had the Sith throwaway the Bane order stuff

[WebLurker]

Snoke and Kylo Ren are but Sith.
No one can deny that. No one.
If they do.... then they're fools.

They are not Sith. A.) The filmmakers and Story Group have confirmed it. B.) One does not need to be a Sith in order to serve the dark side (e.g. the Nightsisters of Dathomir, Maul post-expelling from the Sith Order, etc.)

[SuperiorIronman]

Beyond emulating Darth Vader, Kylo Ren is not a Sith lord. He looks like one, but clearly is not. The Sith died aboard the second Death Star and unless The last Jedi contradict this, then neither Snoke or Kylo Ren is one.

We don't even have confirmation if Snoke can even use the Force, or even if he can access it in the same way Jedi and Sith do. We know he has a knowledge of it, but nothing indicates he is a force user beyond his talks to Kylo Ren. We're simply in the dark on what Snoke's abilities even are, but we know he is willing to emulate the prior regime. That being said the relationship between Snoke and Kylo Ren only superficially looks like Darth Vader's and Palpatine's. We know they aren't Sith but the idea is to look like it. We simply don't have any idea of Snoke's affiliation beyond the First Order, though Kylo Ren's belongs to the Knights of Ren. That's literally in Ben Solo's title.

Kylo Ren also never mentions the Sith in The Force Awakens. He is always reffering to the Dark Side of the Force. Kylo Ren could be considered a Dark Side user and since we know his training was taken up by Snoke one might assume he is as well or at least has a knowledge of it.

[Rapha8]

Had is weird ass dream last night.
Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren are clones of Ben Solo.

[WebLurker]

Had is weird ass dream last night.
Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren are clones of Ben Solo.

Per Zahn's old Thrawn novels, wouldn't that made them "Been Solos?"

[Carabas]

Well, if there's a bunch of him then he's Ben Solo-no-more.

[Rapha8]

Still think Snoke is the kid.

[Za Waldo]

Still think Snoke is the kid.

If they were doing a Makai Tensho Samurai Reincarnation Star Wars then The Force Awakens was a really boring crappy way to kick that off.

[Za Waldo]

On the other hand, can you point to anything at all in any version of canon that says that the Dark Side and the Sith are the exact same thing?
What about the Nightsisters and the Inquisitorius? Definitely Dark Side, definitely not Sith.

The way that they're completely interchangeable terms would lead one to believe they are the same. Same with the Jedi and the Light...which is just called the Force. If they weren't meant to be one in the same there'd be no reason characters would assume their Dark Side problem is specifically a Sith and Sith Lord problem. If we want to go outside what's on screen in the movies Sith was originally in the shooting script for Star Wars, seems it changed to Dark Side so they wouldn't have to explain was Sith are...because Dark Side is a pretty easy thing to get and what the fuck is a Sith?

I don't watch the CG cartoons, I tried and they seemed kind of terrible; the new one even more so than the last. So I don't really know much about either of these things that aren't going to dictate what these two hundred million dollar movies do, but, don't the Inquisitorius work for Vader? How aren't they Sith? How are they not just some faction within the Sith?

The Nightsisters seems weirder going off their Woolieepedia page. Like, are they even Dark Side? They tape into the Dark Side of space magic through Magick, it says they're Magick users, not Force users, although The Force is like the magic ki psychic powers whatever of Star Wars...so that seems weird. And they also worked for a Sith Lord too once. It seems like the cartoon found a really convoluted way to bring back the Prophets of the Dark Side (who were a faction of Sith) from that one comic were Vader and Maul fight to the death in a volcano.

I think we can all agree that the Prequel movies have some spotty writing, okay, that all Star Wars films have some spotty writing, but based on Prequel era canon sources (The Clone Wars, most notably, which was even proper G canon back when that was a thing) we absolutely know that they are not one and the same because non-Sith Darksiders actually show up.

But nobody cares about the shows.

I have absolutely no idea what this is in reference to.
Arendt, Abrams, and Kasdan are subservient to the Lucasfilm Story Group though. Official Star Wars canon that counts got a lot bigger than just some movies when Disney got hold of it.

No it didn't, even if they did make a big deal about the Star Wars Story Group. No one is going to tell Abrams and fucking Kasdan that they have to make some character because some tv show did a thing in like 2011 or something. Until a writer or director says "I was forced to do this or that because of the Story Group" I'm just going to kind of assume it's something to placate nerds about canon. Now they probably do have somewhat of a say in the books and comics, but I doubt they're telling the movie people this or that because a comic book or something once said a thing.

[Carabas]

The way that they're completely interchangeable terms would lead one to believe they are the same. Same with the Jedi and the Light...which is just called the Force. If they weren't meant to be one in the same there'd be no reason characters would assume their Dark Side problem is specifically a Sith and Sith Lord problem. If we want to go outside what's on screen in the movies Sith was originally in the shooting script for Star Wars, seems it changed to Dark Side so they wouldn't have to explain was Sith are...because Dark Side is a pretty easy thing to get and what the fuck is a Sith?

The word "Sith" isn't even used in the original trilogy.

I don't watch the CG cartoons, I tried and they seemed kind of terrible; the new one even more so than the last. So I don't really know much about either of these things that aren't going to dictate what these two hundred million dollar movies do, but, don't the Inquisitorius work for Vader? How aren't they Sith? How are they not just some faction within the Sith?

The Inquisitors work for the Sith. They are not Sith themselves.
They actually can't be Sith because of the rule of two. They're just some ex-Jedi who have managed to make themselves useful.

The Nightsisters seems weirder going off their Woolieepedia page.

Oh yes.

Like, are they even Dark Side?

Oh yes.

They tape into the Dark Side of space magic through Magick, it says they're Magick users, not Force users, although The Force is like the magic ki psychic powers whatever of Star Wars...so that seems weird. And they also worked for a Sith Lord too once.

They have said, repeatedly, that the want the Force to be more ambiguous, more mystical, than it has been mostly presented.
And working for a Sith Lord... if that makes you a Sith then Stormtroopers are Sith.

It seems like the cartoon found a really convoluted way to bring back the Prophets of the Dark Side (who were a faction of Sith) from that one comic were Vader and Maul fight to the death in a volcano.

No, they did not. Never even mentioned them.
They did bring back Maul as a still Dark Side Force using ex-Sith.

But nobody cares about the shows.

Well, this is obviously not true in any way at all.

No it didn't, even if they did make a big deal about the Star Wars Story Group. No one is going to tell Abrams and fucking Kasdan that they have to make some character because some tv show did a thing in like 2011 or something. Until a writer or director says "I was forced to do this or that because of the Story Group" I'm just going to kind of assume it's something to placate nerds about canon. Now they probably do have somewhat of a say in the books and comics, but I doubt they're telling the movie people this or that because a comic book or something once said a thing.

You really think even very big names can just do whatever they want when they are writing or directing a Star Wars movie? Seriously?

[ChrisIII]

The Nightsisters and Dathomir actually originate in the 1994 now non-canon novel The Courtship of Princess Leia, which explains how she and Han got married. However, they're portrayed quite differently than the later Clone Wars version. The EU also retconned Sian Phillip's witch from the Ewok Battle For Endor movie be one of them as well.

They're basically a mix of a few things-Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones concept art for female Sith and the description in the novel, with of course many new canon alterations. They also retconned the origins of Darth Maul and Ventress to tie them to the Nightsisters.


The Inquisitors also are imported from the old EU, but seemed to have a slightly different role.

[Rapha8]

The Nightsisters and Dathomir actually originate in the 1994 now non-canon novel The Courtship of Princess Leia, which explains how she and Han got married. However, they're portrayed quite differently than the later Clone Wars version. The EU also retconned Sian Phillip's witch from the Ewok Battle For Endor movie be one of them as well.

They're basically a mix of a few things-Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones concept art for female Sith and the description in the novel, with of course many new canon alterations. They also retconned the origins of Darth Maul and Ventress to tie them to the Nightsisters.


The Inquisitors also are imported from the old EU, but seemed to have a slightly different role.

The Nightsisters are of magick-wielding females who lived on Dathomir, a planet bathed in dark energies.


The Inquisitors are Force-sensitive agents who worked for the Galactic Empire. The Inquisitors were trained by Darth Vader, the Emperor's apprentice, in the ways of the dark side of the Force.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Inquisitorius

[Rapha8]

Who is Snoke....

http://http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-13...-of-1752546353

[Carabas]

Link goes to the-13-most-nonsensical-theories-about-the-identity-of-Snoke, which won't load.

[Za Waldo]

I didn't say th word Sith was used in the original trilogy. I said it was in the original script, (I specifically said if they we want to look outside of the movies) and that it seems to have been taken out and replace with Dark Side because one is a simple thing to understand (Dark Side of the Force) and the other is some weird word that would make the audience ask what it means. It being in the script is the whole reason why Sith first shows up in the novelization.