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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    May 2014


    Kind of funny that ROTJ just kind of tosses that plot point aside, with Yoda pretty much saying Luke's pretty much trained himself enough.....and then of course the prequels pretty much having Jedi training take place over at least a decade. Info and opinions on a variety of interests.

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Apr 2014


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    It's made pretty clear he didn't finish his training, in fact that is an actual plot point , they even say it, he didn't finish his training. He fails in his vision, He's even warned about it.
    Then ....he is handily defeated. He loses the truth he thought he knew, loses the high ground, loses the fight, and so he never forgets it, loses a freakin hand! To forever remind you how much he was not ready.
    That is the story.

    So how is that a "gaping plot hole."

    It's even re-referenced again in the next movie.

    "...unfortunate that you rushed to face him"

    Kind of funny that ROTJ just kind of tosses that plot point aside, with Yoda pretty much saying Luke's pretty much trained himself enough......
    You said "ROTJ just kind of tosses that^ plot point aside"? What?
    No it doesn't. ROTJ Luke's entire arc, and the whole end of the trilogy is built on that plot point.
    That plot point drives the movie.
    How do people miss this?
    It's set up in Empire Strikes Back, and pays off in Return of the Jedi.

    After Luke rushed to face Vader, Yoda is admitting he's already done THE HARDEST PART, now he must confront that, there is nothing more he can teach him, that he hasn't experienced already.
    This isn't about a back flip, or hurling a moisture vaporator at him, decades of training isn't going to help in this fight. Cause it's no longer about that. Yoda knows it.

    How do people not get this? Did you see the same movie?

    Luke has to find another path, HIS OWN PATH.


    And he does that, by switching off his saber.

    He does NOT follow the Jedi dogma or plan ("you must kill Vader").
    And instead, chose and walked his own path, he does not kill his father because he sees in him what nobody else sees, "himself, so he does something NOBODY even his father thought possible.
    And tosses his saber.
    Why? Because he recognizes his vision, and instead without fear embraces both halves of what he is. Faces the truth of what he is, without the Fear of it.
    There was no teaching that. That is something he alone could do. By facing it.

    This action (which his father (trapped by fear) could never imagine, seeing his son conquer it, freed him to do the right thing.

    And through that act, Luke saves himself, .....and in doing so, his father.
    Last edited by Güicho; 10-19-2019 at 06:09 PM.

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