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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Kind of funny that ROTJ just kind of tosses that plot point aside, with Yoda pretty much saying Luke's pretty much trained himself enough.....and then of course the prequels pretty much having Jedi training take place over at least a decade.
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  2. #77
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    It's made pretty clear he didn't finish his training, in fact that is an actual plot point , they even say it, he didn't finish his training. He fails in his vision, He's even warned about it.
    Then ....he is handily defeated. He loses the truth he thought he knew, loses the high ground, loses the fight, and so he never forgets it, loses a freakin hand! To forever remind you how much he was not ready.
    That is the story.

    So how is that a "gaping plot hole."

    It's even re-referenced again in the next movie.

    "...unfortunate that you rushed to face him"

    Kind of funny that ROTJ just kind of tosses that plot point aside, with Yoda pretty much saying Luke's pretty much trained himself enough......
    You said "ROTJ just kind of tosses that^ plot point aside"? What?
    No it doesn't. ROTJ Luke's entire arc, and the whole end of the trilogy is built on that plot point.
    That plot point drives the movie.
    How do people miss this?
    It's set up in Empire Strikes Back, and pays off in Return of the Jedi.

    After Luke rushed to face Vader, Yoda is admitting he's already done THE HARDEST PART, now he must confront that, there is nothing more he can teach him, that he hasn't experienced already.
    This isn't about a back flip, or hurling a moisture vaporator at him, decades of training isn't going to help in this fight. Cause it's no longer about that. Yoda knows it.

    How do people not get this? Did you see the same movie?

    Luke has to find another path, HIS OWN PATH.

    THAt's THE WHOLE POINT

    And he does that, by switching off his saber.


    He does NOT follow the Jedi dogma or plan ("you must kill Vader").
    And instead, chose and walked his own path, he does not kill his father because he sees in him what nobody else sees, "himself, so he does something NOBODY even his father thought possible.
    And tosses his saber.
    Why? Because he recognizes his vision, and instead without fear embraces both halves of what he is. Faces the truth of what he is, without the Fear of it.
    There was no teaching that. That is something he alone could do. By facing it.

    This action (which his father (trapped by fear) could never imagine, seeing his son conquer it, freed him to do the right thing.

    And through that act, Luke saves himself, .....and in doing so, his father.
    Last edited by Güicho; 10-19-2019 at 06:09 PM.

  3. #78
    Genesis of A Nemesis KOSLOX's Avatar
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    Now that I've seen all of the films:

    1. Empire Strikes Back
    2. Rogue One
    3. Star Wars (ANH)
    4. The Last Jedi
    5. Return of the Jedi
    6. Revenge of the Sith
    7. The Force Awakens
    8. Solo
    9. The Phantom Menace
    10. Rise of Skywalker
    11. Attack of the Clones
    Pull List:

    Marvel Comics: Black Panther, Captain America, X-Men, New Mutants.
    DC Comics: The Green Lantern, Strange Adventures, Far Sector, The Last God.

  4. #79
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Revised list:

    1. Star Wars
    2. The Last Jedi
    3. Empire Strikes Back
    4. Rise of Skywalker
    5. Revenge of the Sith
    6. The Force Awakens
    7. The Phantom Menace
    8. Attack of the Clones
    9. Return of the Jedi

    Still not over the promised Planet of Wookiees in RoTJ.

    Spinoffs:

    1. Solo
    2. Rogue One
    3. The Clone Wars
    4. The Holiday Special
    5. Ewok Movies


    If I put spinoffs in, The Ewoks would be down on the bottom and Solo & Rogue One would be between ROS and RotS.

    Shows:


    1. The Mandalorian
    2. The Clone Wars
    3. Resistance
    4. Droids
    5. Rebels
    6. Clone Wars
    7. Ewoks


    I don't much care for Ewoks.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  5. #80
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    1. Revenge of the Sith
    2. Empire Strikes Back
    3. A New Hope
    4. Phantom Menace
    5. Attack of the Clones
    6. Return of the Jedi
    7. The Force Awakens
    8. Rise of Skywalker
    9. The Last Jedi

  6. #81
    Incredible Member Gurz's Avatar
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    Episode 5 Empire Strikes Back 10/10
    Episode 4 A New Hope 9/10
    Episode 3 Revenge Of The Sith 8/10
    Episode 6 Return Of The Jedi 8/10
    Solo 7/10
    Rogue One 7/10
    Episode 9 Rise Of Skywalker7/10
    Episode 2 Attack Of The Clones 5/10
    Episode 1 The Phamtom Manace 4/10
    Episode 8 The Last Jedi 3/10
    Bad bad boy with a bad bad girl in a bad bad world.
    Pull List
    (DC) Batman (trade)-Nightwing (trade) (Yen Press) Horimiya-Bride's Story-Black Butler-Ubell Blatt-The Case Study of Vanitas-Goblin Slayer-Goblin Slayer Year One-Goblin Slayer Brand New day(Viz Media) My Hero Academia-My Hero Academia Vigilantes-Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Part 4-Dragon Ball Super-Demon Slayer (Dark Horse) Berserk(Seven Seas) The Girl From The Other Side-Made in Abyss (Kodansha) Vinland Saga-Witch Hat Atelier

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Masterpieces:
    -- A New Hope
    -- Revenge of the Sith

    Very Good:
    -- Attack of the Clones
    -- The Empire Strikes Back
    -- Return of the Jedi
    -- The Phantom Menace

    Okay:
    -- The Last Jedi
    -- Rogue One
    -- The Force Awakens
    -- The Rise of Skywalker

    Mediocre (in the Fury Road Sense):
    -- SOLO

  8. #83
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    The main 9 films ranked.

    1. Empire Strikes Back
    2. Return of the Jedi
    3. Revenge of the Sith
    4. A new Hope
    5. Attack of the Clones
    6. Phantom Menace
    7. The Last Jedi
    8. The Force Awakens
    9. Rise of Skywalker

  9. #84
    Extraordinary Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    1. Empire Strikes Back
    2. Star Wars
    3. Rogue One
    4. Return of the Jedi
    5. Rise of Skywalker
    6. Revenge of the Sith
    7. Solo
    8. Attack of the Clones
    9. The Force Awakens
    10. Phantom Menace
    11. Last Jedi
    His name is CAPTAIN MARVEL.

  10. #85

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    1. Return of the Jedi.
    2. A New Hope.
    3. Empire strikes Back.
    4. Revenge of the Sith
    5. Solo
    6. Rogue One.
    7. Rise of Skywalker
    8. The Force Awakens
    9. The phantom menace.
    10. Attack of the clones.
    11. The Last Jedi

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Kind of funny that ROTJ just kind of tosses that plot point aside, with Yoda pretty much saying Luke's pretty much trained himself enough.....and then of course the prequels pretty much having Jedi training take place over at least a decade.
    I always took ROTJ to kinda imply that Luke went back and finished his training with Yoda. Also I think they operate under the conceit that Vader is seriously damaged and not a peak Jedi, a completely inexperienced Luke and out of his prime Obi Wan will lose to him, but once Luke became competent enough he could defeat Vader if he was pushed to enough raw emotional rage.

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member
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    1. Star Wars
    2. Empire Strikes Back
    3. Return of the Jedi
    4. Revenge of the Sith
    5. The Last Jedi
    6. Rise of the Skywalker
    7. Phantom Menace
    8. The Force Awakens
    9. Attack of the Clones.

    That's probably controversial, but I really think that Force Awakens by being kind of a nothing soft remake of the original that left a bunch of dangling mysteries really set the whole sequel trilogy off on a bad foot, while being a film that really no longer holds up beyond the novelty of a big studio going all in on A New Hope nostalgia and feels. Also I'll give Last Jedi kudos for at least trying something new and proposing some interesting if flawed ideas than two films that were basically attempting to stroke fans by reminding them of past movies.

  13. #88
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    I'm going to run two separate lists. One is my own personal enjoyment of the movies apart from where I look at them more objectively as specimens of filmmaking. In some cases, the rankings with coincide. In others, they'll be very different.

    Personal Enjoyment Ranking

    1. RETURN OF THE JEDI

    2. THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

    3. A NEW HOPE

    4. REVENGE OF THE SITH

    5. ATTACK OF THE CLONES

    6. THE PHANTOM MENACE

    7. THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

    8. THE FORCE AWAKENS

    9. SOLO

    10. ROGUE ONE

    11. THE LAST JEDI

    As Specimens of Film

    1. THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

    2. A NEW HOPE

    3. REVENGE OF THE SITH

    4. RETURN OF THE JEDI

    5. THE LAST JEDI

    6. THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

    7. ROGUE ONE

    8. THE FORCE AWAKENS

    9. ATTACK OF THE CLONES

    10. THE PHANTOM MENACE

    11. SOLO

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  14. #89
    Spectacular Member DuskHarlekin's Avatar
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    1. A New Hope
    2. The Force Awakens
    3. Revenge of the Sith
    4. Solo
    5. Return of the Jedi
    6. The Last Jedi
    7. Rogue One
    8. Empire Strikes Back
    9. The Phantom Menace
    10. Attack of the Clones

    Can't rank Rise of Skywalker because it will be the only Star Wars movie I will probably never rewatch. Rise of Skywalker beside one scene never tries to be a good movie and instead is too focus on memes and trying to fix a movie that A) it cant fix, and B) doesn't need to fix.

  15. #90
    Incredible Member chachi's Avatar
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    1. ESB
    2. Rogue 1
    3. ANH
    4. ROTJ
    5. TFA
    6. ROS
    7. TLJ
    8. Solo
    9. ROTS
    10. TPM
    11. AOTC

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