Doomsday Clock : Are the DC heroes "fictional characters' to Dr Manhattan?

[AnthonyO'Brien]

In Watchmen the newsvendor guy talks about 1940's superhero comics he read. "There was Superman, batman and flash-man. I guess with all the real-life costumed heroes they never really took off..' (not the actual quote but close enough)

I wonder if Jon Osterman read these comics as a boy?

The Classic Flash of two worlds issue that started the whole Earth 1 and 2 business mentions that Barry used to read the 1940s Jay Garrick comics as a boy. By coincidence Jay's earth 2 adventures were exactly the same as the earth 1 comics. (of course)

Funny how its Jay who shows up in The Button...

The whole Rebirth/Button/Doomsday Clock thing seems to revolve around key Dc moments : Superman, Flash of two worlds, Watchmen and the 1992 Doomsday storyline whose 25th anniversary is coming soon..

YOUR thought and opinions on this?
IF Dr M can wander into Dc Universe they could maybe have Morpheus (Sandman) have a chat with him or maybe get the Saint of Killers to shoot him!

[Thor2014]

That would fit with the meta-commentary that Johns seems to love. IE: Superboy Prime as commentary on the 'grim and gritty' era of comics and Zoom as commentary on 'tragedy making heroes better.'

[Outside_85]

That would fit with the meta-commentary that Johns seems to love. IE: Superboy Prime as commentary on the 'grim and gritty' era of comics and Zoom as commentary on 'tragedy making heroes better.'

I... really hope Manhatten is not going to turn out to be another one those. I mean come on Johns your villains can actually have a motive beyond whining about how everything is broken and needs to be fixed.

I think it would be better if Manhattan was doing it all as part of an experiment of his.

[Lee Stone]

With Action Comics #1000 coming during Rebirth, I think there will be a connection to the mentioning of Action Comics #1 in Watchmen.

[Starsky_Hutch76]

That would fit with the meta-commentary that Johns seems to love. IE: Superboy Prime as commentary on the 'grim and gritty' era of comics and Zoom as commentary on 'tragedy making heroes better.'

Superboy-Prime was less meta-commentary on grim n' gritty and more of a cheap shot at angry comic fans. He even had him living in his parents' basement and surfing DC message boards at the end of Legion of 3 Worlds. If anything at the time, Geoff Johns was gleefully wallowing in a new age of grim n' gritty he helped usher in. This is why I'm not completely sold on him as DC's savior with Rebirth.

[millernumber1]

Superboy-Prime was less meta-commentary on grim n' gritty and more of a cheap shot at angry comic fans. He even had him living in his parents' basement and surfing DC message boards at the end of Legion of 3 Worlds. If anything at the time, Geoff Johns was gleefully wallowing in a new age of grim n' gritty he helped usher in. This is why I'm not completely sold on him as DC's savior with Rebirth.

I have the same mixed reactions, because he's associated with so many traumatic events and unnecessarily violent dismemberments.

[Starsky_Hutch76]

I have the same mixed reactions, because he's associated with so many traumatic events and unnecessarily violent dismemberments.

Yeah, it's kind of heart breaking considering how good he was prior to Infinite Crisis. He's the Anakin Skywalker of comic book writers.

[Korath]

To answer to the OP, I don't think he does... or if he does, he knows that he himself is a fictional character. I mean, D.C. used a quote of Manhattan saying to Laurie that he is just a puppet seeing the strings of predestination, it could be taken as him knowing that he is part of a comics universe in Doomsday Clock.

[ekrolo2]

I have the same mixed reactions, because he's associated with so many traumatic events and unnecessarily violent dismemberments.

That's the great irony of all this: Johns has become the guy who's whining about everything becoming grim and gritty. He IS Superboy Prime.

[Nosocialize]

That's a fascinating idea, though fans would hate the whole, "it was all a dream" element of it.

After reading the latest Flash I have to say, that epilogue made me wonder if Manhattan is wearing Superman's costume. That'd be interesting.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

This seems too significant to be overlooked in a crossover between the two; Superman is straight-up the inspiration for the first few superheroes in the world of Watchmen. This is part of why I'm thinking it'll turn out Manhattan created the DCU in general as that big blue hand at the beginning of time rather than 'just' the New 52, inspired by those comics (not that this wouldn't be disastrous without caveats - mine is that Watchmen itself is actually Qwewq in All-Star Superman - but I suspect it's a possibility).

Also notable in this regard: there was an issue of Question where he read Watchmen and tried imitating Rorschach for a bit. Given comics nerd Barry Allen didn't recognize Comedian's button, that means Manhattan wiped out Watchmen as a comic from the DCU to make sure no one had that clue to his existence. That one I'm far more doubtful about getting brought up, but it was one of the only if not THE only 'use' of Watchmen between the actual comic and Before Watchmen, so maybe someone remembered.

[Jim Kelly]

I think it's more like wherever you are in the Multiverse everywhere else looks fictional to you, yet your existence seems real to you. But for Dr. Manhattan it must dawn on him that he is no more real than anyone else. Which would be an existential crisis.

But this is more of an Alan Moore idea. Not sure if Geoff Johns would go that way. Moore is probably aware that he's a fictional character. Johns probably doesn't have that insight.

[Buried Alien]

That's the great irony of all this: Johns has become the guy who's whining about everything becoming grim and gritty. He IS Superboy Prime.

People do grow and change their minds with experience, reflection, and the passage of time, and that could include Geoff Johns, Dr. Manhattan, and Superboy-Prime.

I think the danger is in thinking that people, real or fictional, are stuck in permanent ruts and can't change. The idea that those who have been wrong in the past can recognize their past errors and change for the better...that might be the greatest hope of all.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Nosocialize]

I think it's more like wherever you are in the Multiverse everywhere else looks fictional to you, yet your existence seems real to you. But for Dr. Manhattan it must dawn on him that he is no more real than anyone else. Which would be an existential crisis.

But this is more of an Alan Moore idea. Not sure if Geoff Johns would go that way. Moore is probably aware that he's a fictional character. Johns probably doesn't have that insight.

That's an intersting take. Makes sense too from a believer perspective.

[Random4]

that's actually quite an interesting take, it would be somewhat unique instead of him just being another multiverse reality warper threat